Whistler

Kristy (00:00)
Welcome to Books I Make My Husband Read, a self-described hilarious and heartfelt podcast where I, Kristy, the devoted book lover, curate an unexpected reading list for my husband, Jon.

Jon (00:11)
And that's me. In each episode, we dive into lively discussions, humorous debates, and unexpected insights on all the books Kristy just has to make me read.

Kristy (00:21)
We're here to explore everything from your book club favorites to quirky hidden gems, challenging our perspectives and inviting you to join in on the fun.

Jon (00:30)
So settle in, grab your favorite beverage, and get ready for another literary adventure.

Kristy (00:46)
Hello, listeners, and welcome to season five, episode five of Books I Make My Husband Read. I'm your host, Kristy.

Jon (00:52)
And I'm your co-host, I'm the husband Jon, the one who gets forced to read all of the books. All of

Kristy (00:58)
Yes.

Jon (00:58)
them.

Kristy (00:59)
Yes, he does. This week we're talking about Whistler by Ann Patchett.

I read the Dutch House a few years ago, but I really hadn't picked up anything from Ann since then. I did add this one to the season lineup based on some reviews from some trusted sources, and they raved about it. So I thought it was an easy call. but I'm so glad I picked it.

Jon (01:20)
Nice. I I remember my first reaction when you handed me this one. I was like, okay, so we're gonna read about a horse. Cool. This is gonna be like a lassie story or something, but it's a horse, not a book. I know. Anyway, it clearly wasn't it c clearly wasn't

Kristy (01:30)
Lassie was a dog. You could have said black beauty.

Jon (01:36)
that at all.

Kristy (01:37)
So why did I pick this book for Jon? Well, as I mentioned, I am familiar with Ann Patchett work. I have enjoyed it. I read some pretty raving reviews about this one. I knew it was a character driven novel, which Jon claims he likes. We are uncovering

Jon (01:55)
I do.

Kristy (01:56)
that is not completely true. It's partially true.

Jon (02:00)
It's the flavor of truth.

Kristy (02:02)
It's true adjacent.

Jon (02:04)
Yeah, it's truth adjacent. Yeah.

Kristy (02:07)
So those were the reasons I picked it. Again, I'm so glad I did. I'll get into my full thoughts when we talk about what we rated and what we thought about the book, but I am really glad this was part of the season's lineup.

Jon (02:20)
Yeah, right on. Me too. But before we get into all that, a reminder for everyone on what's coming up next. So the next two books in the season five lineup are Her Last Breath by Taylor Adams, our thriller of the season. And the last book of the season is going to be The Pirate Queen by Ariel Lawhon an author who we've had season one.

Kristy (02:46)
Yes. Season season one we did. Yep.

Jon (02:46)
Or two. When was last time we did Ariel? Yeah. Season one.

Nice. Okay. So those are the last two for this season coming up. I'm excited for the thriller.

Kristy (02:54)
Yes, the thriller was amazing. And I'm not even gonna say anything because I don't want to give anything away, but what a great book. we both already read that one. And then The Pirate Queen is my most anticipated book of the entire year.

Yeah.

Jon (03:10)
That's kind of crazy 'cause it's only September.

Kristy (03:13)
Yes.

I ca I I literally can't even s talk about it because I'm so excited for the book. It's our longest book of the season.

Jon (03:21)
Mm.

Kristy (03:21)
We read The Frozen River, as you mentioned back in season one. And so if you have been following along the season, you know that we started with and we're gonna end with authors that we had already covered. Every book in the middle was a new author for the show. So this will be the second time we're covering one of Ariel's books. And yeah, I just cannot wait.

Jon (03:40)
Yeah, and make sure you're following us on Instagram, TikTok, YouTube, and of course on our website, books I make my husbandread dot com. So you never miss an episode or drop and or get, you know, ahead of the books that are coming up on the season or past books for past seasons.

Kristy (03:57)
Yes, and I know I've said this many times, but if you are listening right now and you are not driving, please go to our show page of wherever you're listening to, Apple Podcasts, Spotify, scroll down, tap the stars, and please leave us a review. It's really the best free thing you can do to support our show. And we greatly appreciate it. It is how other people find our show. So

Thank you for listening and thank you for reviewing. if you haven't reviewed,

I'm looking at you.

Jon (04:32)
I haven't reviewed, is that why you're looking at me?

Kristy (04:34)
What?

Jon (04:37)
fun fact, actually I don't know if it's fact. I got an email earlier from a service that like helps promote podcasts and things like that. Apparently we're in the top ten of book podcasts in the Philippines.

Kristy (04:50)
What an honor.

Jon (04:51)
So that's kinda cool.

anyway.

Let's get into the spoiler free book summary. So for those who are new to the show, this is where we give a summary of what the book is about. Spoiler free, so you can decide if you want to keep listening or not.

Kristy (05:03)
Daphne Fuller is fifty-three years old when she walks through the Metropolitan Museum of Art and sees a man she hasn't

laid eyes on in over forty years. His name is Eddie Triplett. He was her stepfather when she was nine years old, and the last time she saw him, they had just survived a car crash together on a freezing January night in nineteen eighty.

Jon (05:23)
Cool name, Eddie Triplett.

Kristy (05:25)
sidebar, a freezing January night in nineteen eighty. Jon was just a wee little newbie. Yes you were.

Jon (05:32)
I was a little freshy, wasn't I? Yes, that's

true. December seventy nine. Anyway, back on track.

That particular accident in a January night of nineteen eighty, and everything that unraveled after it is the fault line the whole book runs along. Eddie's marriage to Daphne's mother has ended. He disappeared from her life.

And Daphne, at nine years old, was left to make sense of a loss she didn't have language for. Now, decades later, they find themselves standing in the same museum eager to rekindle what was lost.

Kristy (06:02)
Whistler moves between the present day reunion and their memory of that night. The crash, the cold, and the story Eddie told young Daphne while they waited to be found. A story about a horse named Whistler who against all odds came back.

Jon (06:17)
This is a book about love, in forms the world doesn't always have a name for. Between a stepfather and a child, between people separated by time and circumstance, and between versions of ourselves we carry forward.

It is quiet, it is devastating, and it is beautifully written.

Kristy (06:33)
Nailed it.

Jon (06:35)
Okay, so now we're on to our spoiler section. So I'm giving a little bit of an alert.

So we're about to talk about a forty year old secret. So if you're not caught up, you've got a few seconds to make a run for it and we'll whistle when it's time to come back.

It's hard to whistle in a microphone.

Kristy (06:57)
I know.

All right, let's talk about what we rated and thought about this book.

Jon (07:03)
Okay. I think you're up next first.

Kristy (07:06)
If I had to pick a favorite from the season right now, I would pick this book. I

Jon (07:10)
Damn, okay.

Kristy (07:11)
already said I have high hopes for the Pirate Queen, but as of this moment, I adored this book. I loved every single minute of it. I just thought the relationship between Eddie and Daphne was really special. Like I want to be Eddie Triplett's stepdaughter.

Or just friend. That's fine too. Yes.

Jon (07:31)
Yeah. Yeah. In his circle.

Kristy (07:35)
I mean, the story talks about this many times, a lot of people felt that way about him because Daphne would say, you know, everyone adored him and he

Everyone lit up when he like walked into a room and everyone wanted to talk to him. And if he gave one dance at the party they were at, then he'd have to dance with every person there. You know, he was just that kind of person I felt like that people were drawn to, people wanted to be around. You wanted to sit at his table and hear about what was going on. And I think he made people feel really special

I love the way the story was told between the alternating timelines. And I loved how it ended. I

Jon (08:13)
Mm

Kristy (08:14)
just loved how it ended. I feel like some of these true character-driven stories, it's hard. Like where when is the time it ends? Like what happens? Does there have to be a moment? Does there have to be a thing? And there's not in this, but the way it's tied up is just absolutely perfect to me.

Jon (08:32)
Yeah. I agree with all those points. That is my summary. No, I'm just kidding. It actually made me think briefly about how much I enjoyed the House on the Cerulean Sea for a similar reason, that it was just like a really good, feel good story about relationship, about characters that you just like really rooted for and could care about. And obviously there's not like magic children and or orphanage or anything like that. But

There's a love story, an untraditional love story through that book as as there was sort of in this one. And I enjoyed the timelines, like you said. Sometimes those can be challenging to jump back and forth between, but I think they were done very tastefully. And the accident was the through line, but it wasn't like

a negatively traumatic event. Well, I guess it kind of was, but it like it what am I trying to say? It didn't wasn't

Kristy (09:22)
It really wasn't if you think if

Jon (09:25)
a negatively tragic event, I think is what I'm trying to say, but it was just not in the traditional sense you think of an accident.

Kristy (09:32)
Well, there was fallout after the accident,

Jon (09:35)
Yeah.

Kristy (09:35)
But

I don't think they even realized what was going on. They just knew Eddie was there and then he wasn't there after the accident and then that was it.

Jon (09:44)
Yeah. And

the and the narration inside the car during the accident and like the bonding moment and like the trust that was built and it was just a very cool story. it clearly wasn't anything about Lassie or, you know, I mean I guess there was a horse in it, but not in the way that I thought going into the book. So anyway, five stars.

Kristy (10:04)
Five

stars, no notes. That's what I said after I finished it.

Jon (10:07)
Nice.

Kristy (10:08)
So the book opens with Daphne and Eddie running into each other at the Met via her husband, who spotted this guy looking at her so they haven't met in forty plus years. Did that hook you right away? Did you want to know everything immediately, or did Patchet earn your patience as you read?

Jon (10:27)
I think you definitely earned my patience. I I was intrigued. And when you meet a parent or step parent or someone who's been estranged from you for X amount of time, you just don't know what that dynamic is gonna be when you meet again. So I think that opening chapter, the first handful of chapters where

They were setting the stage of that introduction was really interesting because I I didn't know what way it was gonna go. Was it gonna be like, I can't believe you found me or like I want no interest in you, or you know, I who knows? So I

Kristy (11:01)
Yeah.

Jon (11:02)
was definitely hooked and it was almost at first to me, like she was too trusting of this person and

that she had just now seen for her after forty plus odd years and almost like too excited to get to know him, which felt a little weird to me, but as, you know, as the story started to unfold, you under you understood why that was because the memory of him to her was still a very, very positive thing. So

Kristy (11:27)
Yeah.

Well, and we only really get the one memory. We only get the car. I mean, there's there's like broad

Jon (11:34)
Yeah, fair.

Kristy (11:34)
strokes of other things. But obviously, if the car accident, which is their last time they're really together, it it is the last time they're really together, is any indication of their relationship and how Eddie was as a stepfather and I would say like a trusted person toward her, then

You can immediately understand why she was so trusting because

despite being in a very

dangerous situation. I mean, he showed a lot of care and patience, you know, with her and making her feel safe, not panicking

and making her feel nervous about it. and then trusting her to like, you know, go get help, but also being terrified as well. I mean, that interaction, I just completely understood why, you know, she

felt immediately trust and probably love toward him. And like you said, you don't know what it's gonna be like, but obviously they had a wonderful relationship. But back to like the question, don't know that I wanted to know everything right away. I wanted to know everything. I wanted to keep reading, but I

Jon (12:37)
Yeah.

Kristy (12:37)
felt like the way Ann Patchet unfolds a story was really precious.

Jon (12:43)
Yeah. I agree.

Kristy (12:44)
So speaking of the car accent, we do spend a lot of time with nine year old Daphne in that car in the cold. How do you feel like Ann Patchett wrote her as a child and did she feel real to you? I know we spend so much time around nine year olds.

Jon (12:58)
So much time.

Kristy (12:59)
Ha ha.

Jon (13:00)
mean guess so, yeah. I I wouldn't have given a thought. I didn't think she had superpowers or anything crazy like that, like some super nine year old. Yeah. She could fly. no, I that'd have been way easier for both of them.

Kristy (13:06)
She had laser beams coming out of her eyes. I mean if she could fly, that'd have been a short story. Yeah. A lot less harrowing.

Jon (13:19)
And up to that point too, because the accident is unfolded to us over the entire book really. And so over the points in early on, you also get an understanding of like the relationship with her sister and that sort of thing. And so you get some of her characteristics and traits along the way and the kind of kid that she was, you know, even before the accident. And so it felt to me even more believable that she's just a a smart kid w

And I think with Eddie being there and acting the way he was and kind of instilled confidence in her and was a good connection to how she wound up being as as an adult then as well. So I thought she was a very

Well rounded character.

Kristy (13:58)
Yeah, I do think that for a nine year old she seemed very smart, very intuitive.

In comparison maybe to some other nine year olds. But Eddie acknowledges that like multiple times throughout that scene and throughout the book itself and reflecting on it, like you were really smart for your age or you were, you know, really intuitive. You knew what you wanted, kind of thing. And so he says that. So it made me feel like, okay, would a nine-year-old really say some of these things? Would a nine-year-old

have this intuition or like be, you know, keyed in on some of the things that she was. But I think that the way Patchett writes it, that Eddie acknowledged it, like made it more believable to me.

Jon (14:37)
Yep, I agree.

Kristy (14:39)
All right, Whistler is the horse in Eddie's story, not Lassie. But this horse becomes a symbol, the whole book orbits around.

Was there a moment where that like landed for you or everything kind of clicked?

Jon (14:51)
I don't think there was one maybe the importance of Whistler sort of clicked for me when her husband came home from his trip to Fond du Lac, Wisconsin, of all places in the book.

Kristy (15:04)
I know. There was something

else that had like I was like, You gotta be freaking kidding me and there was like another connection.

Jon (15:10)
that made me chuckle. I was like, ooh, I know where that know where that is. and have nephew who lives there right now. Anyway,

Kristy (15:15)
Yeah.

Jon (15:16)
when he came back from cleaning out his mother's house with his siblings and and everything and brought her back a little horse statue, not even really I don't it wasn't implied that he knew about Whistler or the story or anything like that. And so it seemed very random for him.

Which then made like the connection for her come full circle in this moment of these two men in her life and this horse being a kind of connecting tissue. So I think if I were to pick a moment it'd probably be that one.

Kristy (15:46)
I don't even remember that. I'm also blacked out.

Jon (15:53)
Yeah, because then later in the book when they find out about Ellie's diagnosis and he comes to the house and her husband was like, You should stay here, sleep there. He's like sitting on the her bed or their bed in the bedroom. He sees the little figurine that he brought for her and so

What about you? I mean, what was there a moment for you where you thought that the horse clicked or was it just kind of once he was unraveling the story within the car, did you understand why the book was titled that and how it kinda all connected?

Kristy (16:22)
Yeah,

I think it was more that because we don't find out till pretty deep in the book the story about.

Whistler and about

Mary, he wanted to buy the book and that, you know, she ends up don't want to say hallucinating, 'cause who knows? Who knows?

Jon (16:38)
Yeah. Yeah, right.

Kristy (16:41)
But she has these visions of people who are visiting her when she thinks she's going to die. And then her horse, who ran off during a storm, comes back a number of days later and like finds her and rescues her.

And so I think it's like this idea of the people who care come back. They might not be able to stay, but they always come back. And Eddie couldn't stay for a number of reasons, which we'll talk about, but he came back. And she you know, no well, they come back together.

Jon (17:08)
Yeah.

Kristy (17:08)
So I don't I don't think it was like until that moment. And I think one of name as well when they're talking about and reflecting on it.

So we learn that the real reason that Eddie and Daphne's mom divorce is because Eddie is gay and his relationship with Skip, who was his college roommate, is really the great love of his life. How did learning that reframe your understanding of his marriage to Daphne's mother his relationship with Daphne herself?

Jon (17:36)
Yeah, as he's telling this story to Daphne later on in life about that part of his life, it was really interesting to me to hear him talk about how a lot of gay men at that time would marry a woman because it just wasn't socially acceptable yet and that sort of thing. And so they would hide their true selves for this. And so, his friend Skip.

you know, marrying Polly Polly basically

Kristy (17:56)
Well not

Jon (17:56)
knowing like

Kristy (17:58)
Hold on, I don't think you mean that was like surprising. It's like that they talked about it together as a couple.

Skip and Eddie. like Skip

Jon (18:07)
yes, right.

Kristy (18:08)
has this plan where we will marry women and still have our relationship.

Jon (18:13)
Yeah, that's right. That's right. So it is a little bit more nuanced like that to the two of them. it was interesting also through the book that you kind of make an assumption or you make some connections on, you know, from Daphne's point of view that her mother was very angry with with Eddie and sent him away and then she thinks it's because of this when later on when she actually talks to her mom about it, it's

It's more layered than that. It's more nuanced than that. And I think it may be

as far as his relationship with Daphne, I you know, or the both of the girls I guess, maybe meant that he had chose to put his love into them. Not that he didn't love their mother, but obviously it's a different kind of love. So I don't know. I I don't know if I'm articulating this correctly, but

Kristy (18:57)
Not at all.

Jon (18:59)
awesome.

Kristy (19:02)
Nailed it.

Jon (19:05)
okay, how about I just reframe the question back to you and you can answer this question and then I'll just agree with you.

Kristy (19:13)
That's how I like it.

Just kidding.

Jon (19:16)
yeah, I don't know that it really, I guess, ultimately reframed any understanding. it just helped paint a more holistic picture of who he was and this kind of internal struggle that, you know, he carried with him really his whole life.

Kristy (19:30)
What what do you when

you say internal struggle?

Jon (19:32)
Well, that he he loved Skip and clearly loved Skip for his entire life, but knew he could never be with him in the way that he wanted to.

Kristy (19:40)
At that time. Yeah.

Jon (19:42)
At that time and even

and later though too because Skip stayed married to Polly.

Kristy (19:46)
Yeah, to Polly, yeah.

Jon (19:47)
So

Anyway, what about you? I mean, did it reframe th understanding or thinking?

Kristy (19:53)
I mean, I felt like the way the book framed it at first was that something really bad happened that whether it was the car accident or something else that really caused Daphne's mother to want to divorce him after only like I think like a year and a half, and

Jon (20:10)
A year,

Kristy (20:11)
up until that point.

They seem to have, you know, a really good relationship. The kids obviously adored him, which when you marry someone with children can be a big I don't want to say obstacle, but like that could cause a yeah, very

Jon (20:23)
Big challenge, yeah.

Kristy (20:24)
challenging. And that wasn't the case. I mean, it was like completely the opposite. the girls loved him. He got along really good with their biological father and like had a good relationship there. So

Jon (20:37)
Yeah.

Kristy (20:37)
Yeah, we it's like, okay, well, what really happened? And then when you find out well, we find out that he's gay, and then it's like, okay, they still got married, so did the mom not know he was gay?

Jon (20:49)
Right.

Kristy (20:50)
But then you actually find out like the layers continue to be pulled back, and you find out more from Skip, and you find out more from Daphne's mother. So I feel like all those things,

reframed the marriage for me and I understood it all. But then I don't want to say it changed the like the relationship with Daphne, but it also just like

made me feel really bad for her that after they got divorced that he wasn't allowed to be in the kids' life still following that.

Jon (21:17)
At all. Yeah. Yeah.

Kristy (21:19)
I think that's the real heartbreak of what happened.

And my next question is related, so I guess I'll just go into that so we can continue

to discuss it without

Trampling on this question's integrity. So there's a scene where Daphne is in the car with her mother, and her mother finally explains why she really pushed Eddie away. And it wasn't that Eddie was gay and that he was in love with Skip. It was that Eddie wasn't in love with her. And that's what she wanted.

Jon (21:48)
Yeah.

Kristy (21:48)
And so having him around was a constant reminder that he loves someone else. And despite them having a great friendship, it wasn't enough for her in a marriage. So the mother says line that I think is really beautiful. It's an awful business loving another person. And I feel like up until we hear the two of them speak, Daphne and her mother in scene in the car, we have a whole different.

Perception of her mother through Daphne's lens and through

Jon (22:15)
Yeah.

Kristy (22:15)
the lens of I lost my biological father, so to speak. They got divorced. I lost the stepfather I really loved. They got divorced. I never got to see him again. And then Her mother marries the third person who it's not like Daphne and her sister dislike this person, but they don't get the warm and fuzzies from him.

They end up having two other kids. And so Daphne and her sister are just kind of like pushed to the side. And she doesn't ever cultivate the same type of relationship with anyone that she had with Eddie. And so we only hear from Daphne and we only get

Thoughts. Yes,

Jon (22:48)
A single lens, yeah.

Kristy (22:49)
through a single lens. Like Eddie a little bit, but Eddie's very much like, let your mother tell her story. I'm

Jon (22:55)
Right.

Kristy (22:55)
not going to give you an idea. Right, exactly.

Jon (22:57)
Words in her mouth or you know, yeah.

Kristy (22:59)
But I mean, like, she has a story to tell and then like I'll tell you the rest of it. back to the question, like I feel like once you hear that from her mom, you have a whole different perception of

How it was really hurt. You know, she was really hurtful. She married this person and sh

Jon (23:17)
Well she was really

sorry, she was really hurtful or she was really hurt? Yeah, okay. She was

Kristy (23:20)
Hurt, sorry. She's really hurt

by this and

Yeah, so I I guess my question is like, did you walk away from that scene having a totally different perception of the mom?

Jon (23:30)
Yeah, I hundred percent did. And that was really a pivotal point for the two of them, their relationship as well, too, because it it felt over the course of the story up to that point, as you were alluding to, that Daphne and her mother didn't have a great relationship either, or not not so far as to say estranged, but definitely strained, it seemed like.

Kristy (23:50)
Yeah.

Jon (23:51)
And

Kristy (23:51)
My I mean, I would say estranged a little bit. I mean, like, think about their interaction when Daphne's like, I'm gonna come visit you.

Jon (23:58)
Yeah, that's true. That's true. Let me check my calendar.

Kristy (24:02)
Yeah.

Jon (24:02)
yeah,

It was a turning point for the two of them. And so it it did really give and sorry, I'm gonna go off on a side tangent here as well. Like I think the fact that Eddie didn't try to fill Daphne's brain with his version of her mother's story also just speaks to the character and kind of person that he is

Kristy (24:21)
Absolutely.

Jon (24:22)
as well. And so for her to just discover that on her own and then draw her own conclusions, now having like both sides of the story.

I think just is it's really how the whole book is written. It's like you're uncovering these pieces and putting all these things together and it's just in a very loving and healthy way, you know. So yeah, I didn't dislike her mother as much after after that scene. Her

Her likability meter went went up a few notches.

Kristy (24:51)
Check.

I love that moment in the book for a couple of reasons. One, like you're saying, I f feel like you get a totally new perspective on her, and you're like, well, shit. Yes.

Jon (25:05)
Reframe my thinking.

Kristy (25:07)
I wanted to dislike you, but now it's impossible to dislike you. But it's also, I feel like one of those rare character moments and

It would have been really easy for Daphne's mom to say, Well, he was gay. What was I supposed to do? But instead of saying what had probably been the easier thing, she said the thing that was true. She said, I was hurt by this. It's not Eddie's fault. I married him knowing he was gay. And I mean, she even says, like, she's told him he had a s you know.

stop being gay and she knows that that's wrong now. But back then she she didn't she was like, I didn't know. And she thought it was something he could just like stop doing and be married to her. And it's not that for her that he couldn't stop doing it. It's that he loves Skip and he didn't love her. And she's like, I just wanted to him to love me the way he loves Skip. And he was never going to be able to do that.

Jon (26:03)
Yeah.

Kristy (26:03)
And so it's like this moment where her mom is like almost the villain in the story, in a way. she shifts from being that to just being someone who was hurt and has never had the opportunity to say that out loud in the way she really needed to. Because she couldn't have said that to her kids when she was nine and however the oldest sister was. They wouldn't have understood. She probably she wasn't gonna tell her friends or anybody because

They would have probably said, Well, you married a man who was who was gay. What what were you expecting? She didn't

Jon (26:33)
Yeah.

Kristy (26:33)
want to out Eddie, I'm sure. So she

Jon (26:35)
Right.

Kristy (26:36)
also couldn't tell people. So it's like now she can actually say those things out loud. And to some extent, she probably also hasn't thought about it in a long time too.

Jon (26:45)
and Daphne said that a bunch throughout the book as well. She's like, I haven't really thought about Eddie in however many years either. Like they just their lives just sort of carried on.

Kristy (26:54)
Yeah, I mean y

You're nine years old, this guy's been in your life for a year, but after a year, you're probably not gonna think about him very much either because other things are gonna be going on.

Jon (27:04)
Right.

Despite having left the impact that he clearly did on her. Yeah.

Kristy (27:07)
Yeah.

Ann Patchet is very interested in how children absorb adult pain without understanding it.

Was there a moment in young Daphne's story where that felt especially true?

Jon (27:19)
Yeah. That's a really interesting question. I'm not sure I f full fully know how to answer that one. How would you go about answering a question like that?

Kristy (27:31)
Yeah, so having read The Dutch House, which also deals with, family trauma from Ann Patchett, definitely feel like there's this theme of what we bring with us into, you know, into adulthood. But then specifically Daphne, I d I don't feel like she, you know, you said this earlier, like the trauma of

And I don't know that there was trauma from the car accident, not as far as like trauma goes from an accident that, yeah,

Jon (27:58)
Tragedy.

Kristy (28:00)
that you're having, you know, I don't know, flashbacks or PTSD from or things like that. Like she doesn't leave

Jon (28:05)
Right.

Kristy (28:05)
with that. But I imagine as a nine year old, we don't get this part of the story, like what happened after

It was said that they were getting divorced and what was the next year of Daphne's life like after that? Like we don't get that story. But what we do get is the impact in a positive way that Eddie had on her, and maybe she didn't realize it till she starts unpacking it these 40 years later.

Jon (28:31)
I see. I mean for sure.

Kristy (28:33)
I mean, and also like not just Eddie, but like her mother. So like think about what we just talked about, the scene with her mother in the car, and she walks away with a I imagine that completely changed their relationship.

Jon (28:47)
Yeah, it was might have been like the first time she ever heard her mom speak honestly about something like that. Yeah.

Kristy (28:52)
Yeah. Yeah.

And I bet their relationship was completely different moving forward after that. We get a little bit of that but

Jon (28:59)
Yeah.

Kristy (28:59)
that's not the focus of the book. But although I like you said, I wouldn't call them estrange, but they're definitely at arm's length from each other. They're definitely at like I need to schedule a time to come see you kind of visits, or like, know.

Are you free to talk next week kind of thing?

Jon (29:14)
Yeah.

Kristy (29:15)
And that's not don't wanna say not normal because what the fuck is normal anymore? But when you think of a parent child relationship, you know, it wasn't a given they were spending Christmas together.

Jon (29:25)
Yeah. And even just in their communications, not necessarily their frequency of communication, but you could tell from the conversations

Kristy (29:31)
Yeah.

Jon (29:32)
they were having, it was yeah,

Kristy (29:33)
Yes, surface.

Jon (29:34)
Daphne didn't really want to be on the phone with her kind of.

Kristy (29:36)
Right.

So the book moves between two timelines, the nineteen eighty crash and the present day reunion. Did you like that structure or you feel yourself wanting to go back to one or the other?

Jon (29:47)
No, not not really actually for this book. I thought both timelines were perfectly woven together. They revealed and kind of peeled back the right amount of information about each person as they went along. It Whistler story in the car, the kind of person that you know Eddie really was even back then. and

I wanted to know what happened. Like I want to keep reading like how do they get out of this? Like, what was the outcome of? I mean, obviously we know the outcome of it, but like wanted to know how how they got out of it. and I thought it was just perfectly balanced. I don't think I could say it any other way. I just I think it was the right amount. I think it was a perfect storytelling mechanism for that moment in their life that.

You know, they were only together for such a short amount of time, but they had this moment that was so critical to them, to each of them really, in their life going forward and stuck with them and left an imprint on them that

when that story was done, it just felt like a natural progression into rest of the present day story. And so, I wasn't left wanting more or anything like that. And as you alluded to earlier, the way it ended was just

Pretty pretty special.

Kristy (30:53)
Yeah, I agree. There are plenty of books where you'll go between time and I love a dual timeline book, does like absolutely.

Jon (30:59)
Totally. Yeah.

Kristy (31:01)
But sometimes you want to you end at a spot where you're like, no, why did it in there? I wanna

Jon (31:06)
Yeah.

Kristy (31:06)
keep reading about this timeline. I don't need to go to the other one yet.

Jon (31:09)
Yeah.

Kristy (31:10)
And this book was not like that at all. Like I felt like you got exactly what you needed when you needed it. And I never felt myself going, well, what else is going to happen with the car accident? Like, how did they get to the hospital? I never needed to know that ahead of when I knew it.

Jon (31:27)
Yep. I agree. a good way of putting it. I wouldn't have, as usual, at articulated it as well as you. but yeah, I found myself wanting to know what happened next, but not like I didn't feel like I wanted to stay in there. That the next

Kristy (31:38)
Right, like

Jon (31:38)
part of the story was equally as

Kristy (31:40)
You weren't disinterested

in the present day or whatever, vice vice versa

Jon (31:43)
Yeah.

Kristy (31:44)
because of it.

Jon (31:44)
Yep.

Kristy (31:46)
All right, so you just alluded to this. We talked about this in the beginning, but

the ending to me was absolute perfection. So if you're listening to this point, but you haven't read this book, There is an epilogue, but it ends with Eddie is aging. He is sick. He has lymphoma.

She's taking the chemo appointments which is a little too close to home right now for me as I was read or as I was reading it. And going to doctor's visits, doing all the things. And she even says at one point that he was doing good and like the bad stuff would come later. So I knew that or I thought that I should say, this is going to end with him dying.

That's what I thought. That's how I thought the book was going to end. They had this wonderful reunion. They had X amount of years together. But he's an old man by the time they meet, you know, that he's going to die. But instead, they're sitting on a bench and he tells her, like, you should write it all down. You should tell this story. And she said, she basically basically is like, but.

Then when when does the story end? Like then you're gonna die in the story. And he says, it can just stop here. Like can just stop right here while we're on the bench. And so in my mind, one, that's perfect, but two, I read it as the story we have been reading this whole time is what Daphne has written down. So did you read it that way, or like what were your thoughts on the ending?

Jon (33:10)
I did until I read the epilogue and then I came storming up into your library and was like, Is this mean she's been dead the whole time or something? Not I don't know. I don't remember exactly what I said, but like

Kristy (33:21)
Let's get into that in a minute, 'cause I think that

you made me question everything. I don't want to say your thoughts are wrong because I don't think that was the intention, but they were really interesting.

Jon (33:34)
was. It was just the way that that because I don't think it needed it for one. And so the fact that it was in there, the epilogue, just made me question everything. But yeah, I did too. I thought the whole sitting on the bench, they're back at the Met, with Eddie and her mother is there as well now, right? And so like you could there's the piece of like that relationship is mended. Eddie played a part in mending that.

Her relationship with her husband Jonathan is, you know, strong. And her mother and Jonathan go off to view an exhibit, but Eddie's too tired. So they go sit on this bench. And through the book, Eddie said he always wanted to be the author. And so she was also like, Well, this should be your story to tell, just like he wanted to tell Mary's story or, you know, whatever it was. So it was a very close the loop.

Bookend the story, however you wanna metaphor you wanna kinda use, but it was just like perfect to see I could see it in a film too, right? They're just like sit there on the bench and they're smiling and he like taps his old hand on her knee or something and it just like goes to credits and that's that's it. Anyway, so

Kristy (34:37)
This book

has to be a film, by the way.

Jon (34:40)
I would be, well, we should make it.

Kristy (34:43)
yes. We'll get right on that. We know people.

Jon (34:43)
Yeah. You know.

but okay, so you don't want me to jump to the epilogue now?

Kristy (34:51)
Yes.

Jon (34:52)
Okay, so love that ending. And then there's an epilogue. It's short, it's only a handful of pages, if I remember correctly. And it gives the story of what happens after she got out of the car and gets to the house that calls for help, and then the fire trucks and the ambulance come to actually get them, pull the car up and get Eddie out. and there is a part.

In that epilogue at the very end, where they're both in the ambulance, and she says, We hit a bump and we spin out control, or we spin something or other. And just made me wonder just like Mary's story of she was nearly dying in the field, and she's seeing all these people from her past life who have who have passed on as well.

It just gave me a moment of pause. Was this whole book a memory like that or of something? And like they actually both perished in like an ambulance accident because the roads were terrible or something. So, anyways, clearly not. but when I finished, I I did. I closed closed the book and stormed right up to your library. And it like, bamboozled me.

you're

right, after we talked about it, I agree. I that's not

Kristy (36:04)
I talked you off the cliff.

Jon (36:05)
you did. That was not the intent of that of the epilogue

Anyway,

Kristy (36:09)
Yes.

Jon (36:09)
so

That was the epilogue. It really gave me heartburn.

Kristy (36:12)
Yeah, he was like, are they dead? And I was like, what are you talking about? And I was like questioning, like, did I read the ending wrong? Like, did I miss something? And I was like, no,

Jon (36:21)
Yeah. But yeah.

Kristy (36:22)
no. I think that was he says says, yeah, the car fish or the ambulance fish tails or whatever.

Jon (36:29)
For sales.

Kristy (36:30)
But then he like pats her leg and says, You'll never find a girl like this or something. And I think that was just.

They didn't know it at the time, but right.

Jon (36:39)
That was the last they were gonna see each other. Yeah.

Kristy (36:42)
Yeah. So that was their that was their last moment for, you know, the next forty years together, but they didn't they didn't know that at that time.

Jon (36:49)
Yeah. could've left that little fish tailing part out, it way made way

Kristy (36:50)
But

Jon (36:52)
more sense.

Kristy (36:56)
I I did think it was the perfect ending though. I mean but it kinda goes back, so I guess maybe to bring this whole full circle, talking about character driven books where there's not, you know, a plot there's no plot, there's no yeah, n no climax,

Jon (37:11)
Solution to a problem of some kind or yeah.

Kristy (37:14)
no none of those things happen in this book. And it doesn't even really have an ending. It literally ends with them sitting on a bench.

Jon (37:19)
Yeah,

yeah.

Kristy (37:20)
So

d I mean how did you how did you feel about that?

Jon (37:24)
Yeah, this one for whatever reason just like and maybe because of the way it was written or the way it was told or how it un was unfolded. But I thoroughly enjoyed this book and the way that that ended. It felt fitting. It felt like enough. there was no loose end to tie up or anything else like that.

They started at the Met, that's how they met each other. They ended at the Met and they're sitting on the bench. Like it just made sense.

Kudos.

Kristy (37:51)
All right, final thoughts.

Jon (37:52)
The

Kristy (37:53)
Anything anything we didn't cover that you enjoyed about the book or wanted to make note of a discuss. And then more importantly, would you recommend Whistler to our listeners?

Jon (38:06)
I think my only final thought was to say is that I enjoyed her the character of her sister through the story as well. She's

Kristy (38:13)
Yeah.

Jon (38:13)
a psychiatrist or therapist in the book. And so it was just a really interesting dynamic to listen to her because her sister had never heard the full story of what happened in the car accident also. And so i it that was kind of another clever angle of the telling of the story, what happened inside the car and what went on it during the accident.

through the lines of kind of like her telling her sister the story and whatnot. So really I enjoyed that part and I enjoyed that character in the book. I I would I gave this one five stars. I would recommend this one. like I mentioned it to me it just gave me the similar feels to House on the Cerulean Sea. Like it was just a feel good book. And like

I kept waiting for something bad to happen or I kept waiting for something tragic to happen. Or like you said, I r I thought he was the end of this was gonna be like he passes on and that's kind of

Kristy (38:59)
Then I would have been sobbing.

Jon (39:00)
Yeah, yeah. but yeah, it just was like good uplifting love story in an untraditional way and solid.

Kristy (39:08)
I agree about her sister's character. And I was actually just thinking almost every character in this book that we get any depth to. So there's a few, like we get a little bit of the her mother's third husband, so significant, I don't even remember his name now. But

Jon (39:23)
Yeah.

Kristy (39:23)
not a not enough that I would he's not a main character in the book, but like the main people.

we hear from and even some of the side characters we hear from, like her sister, like the mother, Skip and Polly. I mean

There's no one I really dislike. I think Polly was actually the least likable person and Skip. But when you hear the full story and then you

Jon (39:43)
Dynamic.

Kristy (39:44)
think about the dynamic between Skip and Polly and what Polly has probably had to navigate, whether she knows Skip is gay or doesn't know Skip is gay, she probably knows that something is fundamentally missing in her marriage. And

Being from that era not an excuse, but like not talking about things and probably being as open and honest about things and also like the circle of that they grew up in with wealth is also very different dynamic. So you kinda understand Polly. You don't think that excuses, you know, some of her behavior, but you're like, yeah, I kinda feel for this woman. So

I just really enjoyed the character, like Eddie especially, Daphne especially, but her husband and her sister her sister, as you name, like and her sister's son. mean, they were just

Jon (40:33)
Yeah.

Kristy (40:33)
her sister's husband, like they were all just really great and circle I want to be a part of. Where's his family at?

Jon (40:38)
Yeah, I totally agree.

Kristy (40:41)
Can we be friends?

But as f as far as recommending this book, I would obviously recommend it too. and honestly, like The House in the Cerulean Sea, it's one of those books I feel like you can probably recommend to just about anybody.

Jon (40:59)
Yeah. I would agree. And like by any like different ages and things like that you mean, right? Yeah.

Kristy (41:04)
Well, different ages, different people who like different genres. I mean, there's books that I would recommend to my friends, but maybe I wouldn't recommend to my mother. Nor

Jon (41:13)
Yeah, sure.

Kristy (41:14)
my mother in law. But this one I feel like you can recommend to anybody. It has great characters, it has a great story. It makes you want to keep turning the pages. I think the pacing is really great.

And I don't feel that way about a lot of books. I read Remarkably Bright Creatures this year. And that's another book that I feel like is one of those that you can recommend this book to anyone. I don't need to know a lot about what you like to read, but I feel like this is a solid book choice, no matter what you enjoy reading.

Jon (41:42)
Nice Nice. Here, here.

Kristy (41:45)
Well, I said this at the top of the show, but I'm going to say it again as a reminder. If you have not rated our show, we would really appreciate it if you would. All you need to do is go to Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you're listening, scroll down and tap the stars. It's free. It takes 30 seconds and it genuinely helps more people find our show. If you have questions on the show, you can always email us at books I make my husbandread at gmail.com. We love hearing from you.

Jon (42:12)
Yes, yes we would. And while you're at it, tell another book lover in your circle about the show too.

Kristy (42:18)
Well, I guess that's it.

Jon (42:19)
This is another one in the books.

Kristy (42:22)
Well, who knows? Maybe this will be the one your husband reads.

Jon (42:25)
And as you pointed out, should because anyone can read it.

Kristy (42:28)
He absolutely should. then you can go watch Lassie together.

Jon (42:32)
Las- see.

Kristy (42:34)
Or Mr. Ed.

Jon (42:35)
Mm.

Kristy (42:37)
What were some other horse shows?

Jon (42:38)
Black Beauty, like you mentioned, Secretariat, Seabiscuit,

Kristy (42:42)
yeah. Sea biscuit.

Jon (42:44)
lots of horse movies and shows.

Kristy (42:46)
Yep. All right. Bye bye.

Jon (42:47)
Okay T T FN and

bye.

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