The Housemaid

Kristy (00:00)
Welcome to Books I Make My Husband Read, a self-described hilarious and heartfelt podcast where I, Kristy, the devoted book lover, curate an unexpected reading list for my husband, Jon.

Jon (00:10)
And that's me. In each episode, we dive into lively discussions, humorous debates, and unexpected insights on all the books Kristy just has to make me read.

Kristy (00:20)
We're here to explore everything from your book club favorites to quirky hidden gems, challenging our perspectives and inviting you to join in on the fun.

Jon (00:29)
So settle in, grab your favorite beverage, and get ready for another literary adventure.

Kristy (00:42)
That's gonna make it in.

Jon (00:44)
Probably.

Kristy (00:45)
Hello listeners and welcome to season four, episode one of Books I Make My Husband Read. I'm your host Kristy.

Jon (00:52)
And I'm Jon. I'm the co-host, the one that Kristy forces to read all of the books.

Kristy (00:57)
Forces is such a strong word.

Jon (01:00)
Sometimes it's what it feels like. Read this. I know. ⁓ my God. So sensitive. Read this or else.

Kristy (01:04)
It does not, does it? No. Read this or else. ⁓

Well, speaking of reading books, do you know,

Jon (01:13)
Tina, eat your ham.

Kristy (01:18)
back to our regularly scheduled program. I cannot believe we are on season four. You probably can't either since you've had to read all these books and keep up.

Jon (01:24)
Ha.

I know I really can't. I've lost track of the numbers. It's just like, what day is it? What book is it? What episode is this?

Kristy (01:34)
Season four, episode one. Did you not listen?

Jon (01:36)
yeah, right.

I got it. Thanks.

Kristy (01:41)
Well, if you caught our season three recap, then you will know that season four actually has a theme. So this season, we are going to be reading seven books that have been developed into films. And that includes some new releases and that includes some classics as well. And so to kick things off this season, today we'll be discussing The Housemaid by Freida McFadden.

A story about a desperate young woman who takes a live-in job with a wealthy family only to realize the picture-perfect home she stepped into is full of secrets, manipulation, and danger that she never saw coming.

Jon (02:16)
So this one for me kind of made me appreciate Freida's writing a little bit more. Because the last couple, well, you've had me read a couple of hers now, and two. The Boyfriend was decent. I enjoyed it. I liked the thrillers. I liked that one. The Crash was terrible. And this one was good.

Kristy (02:27)
Yes.

We like that. Yeah.

It was not terrible. We had a great

conversation actually about it.

Jon (02:40)
The fact that

we had a great conversation doesn't mean that the book was good or not good. And I just did not think that book was good. ⁓ So anyways, we did have a good conversation. I made for a great episode, a lot of great banter. But, this one like re elevated Freida in my, in my mind's eye. So ⁓ nice pick.

Kristy (02:44)
That's.

Yes,

So this idea came about because I have been waiting for you to read The Housemaid, which is my favorite Freida McFadden book. And I knew there was a film adaptation coming out. So I was kind of waiting for the film to come out so that we could read the book together, talk about it here, and then watch the film together. I'm also personally, I've had Project Hail Mary on my list for a while now, but

I love when a book is adapted to a film. So I had been personally waiting that because I kind of wanted to wait to see not have a gap between reading the book and then seeing the film. I will always read the book first. And so I thought I wanted to do both those books on the podcast. But again, I wanted to wait for the film. So I had this idea that, hey, why don't we just do all books that have had film adaptations? So

What we'll be doing this season is reading the book and watching the film, and we're gonna talk about them both. So just be warned that we will give you our normal, here's the spoilers, but then we'll give you another one if you've read the book, but maybe you haven't seen the film yet and you don't want spoilers because we will be talking about the films as well.

Jon (04:13)
Yeah. So we're film critics now too. We're all critics. Yeah. No argument from this guy.

Kristy (04:16)
we're all critics. I'm judgy as fuck.

All right, so why did I pick The Housemaid for Jon? Well, again, it's my favorite Freida book. There is just so much going on here. There are scenes that I don't care. I will never leave my brain. And we're gonna talk about those. Just like some of the creepy things that happen. I think it's her best writing. There's things in the book that I did not see coming.

and it's twisty, it's like a psychological thriller, which I know you like, and I never, I just wanted to keep turning the pages. It's just like, you could read this in one setting.

Jon (05:02)
Yeah, and I felt like I felt very similar to that as far as like turning the pages, the chapters were short, everything was just like, on and on and on. So great pick, love the genre. And as I mentioned, like definitely re elevated Freida in my author rank based on the last

So before we get into the depth of our conversation, and before we inaugurate our film critic criticisms, hats for this themed season,

Kristy (05:30)
hats.

Jon (05:34)
We wanted wanted to let everybody know what books Kristy is going to make me read next and subsequently what movies we'll watch along with them. So the next two are

Rita Hayworth and Shawshank Redemption by Stephen King, which is yes, the movie that you're thinking of the full title is Rita Hayworth and Shawshank Redemption, even though the movie is titled just Shawshank Redemption. And after that is People We Meet on Vacation by Emily Henry. So another Emily Henry book slash movie.

Kristy (06:05)
Yes.

Most people don't even know that Shawshank is a book and it came out many, many years ago. This is the, and well, I'm sure we'll talk about this day, but this is the book that when people say the film is or the book is always better. I'm like, Shawshank is better than the book and not because the book is bad, but Shawshank is just such a great movie with two.

really wonderful actors who fill the role well. And it's also a short novella. So you get actually more in the movie than you do in the book, which sometimes does not transition well, i.e. the Hobbit. But in this case, I think it's actually done really, really well. Obviously, it run a ton of Oscars. And then, yeah, Emily, this Emily Henry book is a little, I mean, a few years old.

Jon (06:47)
Yeah.

Indeed.

Kristy (07:03)
I know we've done a couple others as well, but it just came out I think this week on, well, when we're recording this this week on film and I want you to catch up because I'm so excited to read it. It's on Netflix. It's a Netflix movie. yeah, yeah. I'm so excited for you to read it. then we could, yes, you got it. Yes. Yes.

Jon (07:16)
Read it or go see it.

yeah, so to see it, yeah, okay. All right.

So we can see it, watch it. Yes. Okay. Tracking.

Kristy (07:30)
but we did wanna remind listeners before we get into our discussion that you can follow us on Instagram and TikTok. And if you're enjoying the show, please rate and review us on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you happen to be listening.

Jon (07:43)
Alrighty then. I guess this is the part of the episode where we get into that spoiler free book summary so people know have an idea of what we're talking about.

Kristy (07:51)
Yeah, let's do it.

The position seems steady paycheck, a place to live, and a chance to rebuild her life after a difficult past.

All she has to do is cook, clean and help care for their young daughter while staying in the small attic bedroom provided for her.

Jon (08:13)
But almost immediately Millie realizes that working for the Winchesters isn't going to be simple. Nina Winchester, elegant, beautiful, highly unpredictable, swings between kindness and cruelty as easily as a blink of an eye, leaving Millie constantly on edge.

Nina's husband Andrew seems exhausted and quietly resigned, hinting that life inside their picture perfect home may be far more fragile than it appears.

Kristy (08:38)
As a tension in the household builds, Millie begins to sense that the Winchester's are keeping secrets and that she may be more entangled in them than she ever expected. The house itself starts to feel isolating and claustrophobic, especially when Millie discovers unsettling details about the way things are run.

Jon (08:56)
caught between gratitude for the job and growing unease Millie tries to keep her head down and survive each day. But the longer she stays, the more she realizes that nothing in this home, including her employers, her role, and even her own past is as straightforward as it first seems.

tension builds. All right, listeners, you know the drill. This is where we start to spill all the beans and the spoilers. So if you don't want spoilers, go grab the key lock yourself upstairs in the attic and we'll let you know when you can come back down.

Kristy (09:33)
Whoosh.

All right, so before we dive into these questions, something that we did in, I think season one, at least partly in season two, is I gave a little spoiler summary following our non-spoiler summary. So I'm gonna do that real quick just for anyone who's listening, who maybe hasn't read the book in a while or doesn't care to read the book, but you're listening, we appreciate you. And here you go.

All right, so once Millie starts working for the Winchesters, it really seems like Nina is the problem. She's volatile, demanding, and honestly exhausting, while Andrew comes across as quiet and gentle and very hot. Millie starts to trust him, which makes sense because from the outside, Nina looks like the unstable one and Freida does what Freida does. She flips the table on ya. We learn that Andrew has been gaslighting and controlling Nina for years,

institutionalized so no one would believe her. Suddenly Nina's behavior makes sense and Andrew, who seemed kind and fragile, reveals himself to be the real threat. Calculating violent and far more dangerous than Millie ever imagined. The twist though is that Millie is not the easy target that Andrew assumed. She is a no.

Jon (10:48)
She ain't no dumb blonde.

Kristy (10:50)
She has a dark past and razor sharp survival instincts. And instead of falling into his trap, Andrew realizes he's underestimated the wrong woman, which most men do. Let's be real.

Jon (11:03)
That's just, what? Let's no... No. Nope.

Kristy (11:07)
Are

you defending your gender right now?

Jon (11:10)
I don't know what I'm doing.

Kristy (11:13)
All right, let's talk about what we rated the book. You go first. I checked episode seven of the end of last season and you're up, buddy.

Jon (11:17)
Good idea. Good segue. I go first.

all right, then.

What did I think this book? Well, I definitely think it was the best Freida book that I've read to date,

So the characters. The way that the story is told from like part one to part two to part three is also just a really well crafted narrative. I thought part one, my my feelings were just like, my god, Nina is the worst. I was like, she's horrible. Yeah.

Kristy (11:52)
You kept saying, I hate this person, she's horrible. And I was like, hmm, where are you in the book? Where are you

in the book?

Jon (12:00)
And

then I told you I ⁓ finished it was later at night. So the next morning I finished part one and you're like, did you turn the page in part two? I was like, no, because as soon as I did that, I realized, ⁓ we're getting Nina's backstory now. Okay, I get it.

Kristy (12:13)
Yes. I actually couldn't

remember because some of Freida's books are like dual narration throughout, like back and forth or kind of back and forth. And this one's specific like segments and or like part one, part two, I guess. And I wanted to ask you at a couple of points, did you get to the Nina chapters yet? Did you get to the Nina chapters yet? When you kept saying that, I'm like, no.

Jon (12:27)
Yeah.

and I wouldn't have known what you meant until I did, yeah. Yeah.

Kristy (12:38)
I can't ask him. Well, I didn't want to spoil it because I would have probably

keyed you that, okay, maybe I'm not going to hate this person. I think you really have to experience like, ⁓ shit.

Jon (12:49)
Yes, totally. And we'll get to that in our, our film critique as well. So I won't go too deep on that. But yeah, the first part of that book, I was like, this woman is awful. I don't I couldn't understand how Millie could stay there after like two or three episodes of Nina like, peace out. This is not worth And you had like, yeah, I won't go much further than that. I know we'll get to the questions. But in general, I

thoroughly enjoyed the book. ⁓ The characters kind of drove you mad, but in like that really sort of rewarding way of like you want to keep learning. was like train wreck. It was a giant train wreck that you just like couldn't not look you couldn't look away from

Kristy (13:27)
Yeah.

as I've already said, my favorite Freida book.

So something that we did recently is, stick with me for a second here. We did recently is re-listen to some of our early episodes and you called me out that I say a lot, that I read it and then I read it again preparing.

Jon (13:52)
The second time I read it.

Kristy (13:54)
Basically saying I'm pretentious because I have called out that I've read it twice. Well, here's a spoiler. I am pretentious. Let's be real. I don't think that's a secret, but I felt it's important to say and I'm still going to say it. I don't care what the fuck you say because it because I think you experience a book different when you reread it.

Jon (13:59)
I'm so I'm such a book person. I read this one more than once.

That checks.

Kristy (14:19)
You pick up new things, there's more nuance. When you know where a story is going, you pick up on those things.

Jon (14:20)
Totally.

Absolutely. Did you reread this one?

Kristy (14:26)
I read this, I reread this one because it had been

a few years since I read it initially. So that's fair. I wanted to do my due diligence when we have these episodes because let's be real, I read a lot of books. The minute I set it down, most of it's out of my mind. Not this book. I still freaking think about that attic scene where she's pulling her hair out. I'm not kidding you, all the fucking time. It lives rent free in my brain.

Jon (14:51)
It's rough.

And it's

Kristy (14:52)
because I think that's

so sadistic, which we'll get to, but I don't want to say anymore right now. I want to get to it, but I freaking love this book. It was a wild ride. If you have never read a Freida book, this is the one you should pick up. You can absolutely read book two in the housemaid series. I think it's almost as good as the first one, but I just think you can't replace like that first feeling. Three, don't, just don't.

Jon (14:57)
Yeah. Okay, fine.

Kristy (15:22)
all right, let's jump into the questions if you're good with that.

Jon (15:25)
Let's go.

Kristy (15:27)
All right, so for these first the book. I don't want to talk about the film because I do want to give a clear spoiler to any listeners so we don't ruin the film for them if they haven't seen it and they plan to. So, and we do have questions later about the film, but...

So question, so Millie walks into an environment that clearly toxic very quickly. And you already mentioned like you would have left. So why do you think Millie stays?

Jon (15:52)
I think it's important to understand the desperation in Millie's motivations. Having just gotten out of prison. We don't really learn what for until later on in the book. But you do get a sense that she's been rejected by jobs. She's been fired by job. She's been, she's left jobs that she doesn't like. And so she just

Kristy (16:19)
She's living in her car.

Jon (16:21)
and winds up living in her car right been evicted I think so I you kind of have to hold on to that desperation I think with that and then you see like the lavish lifestyle and she was getting paid very well for a housemate or it was implied she was getting paid very well and so I think that was the motivation to stay also she starts to catch feelings about

you know, Andrew, which can also lead to be like, ⁓ it's not so bad. I'll hang out here for a little bit and see how this pans out. So that's what I think. I S I mean, I obviously can't understand that kind of desperation, that kind of position that she was in because just no, it just seems too crazy to be like, you know what? My car actually sounds pretty good right now.

Kristy (17:17)
Yeah.

Jon (17:17)
I don't need

this in my life, but that's just me.

Kristy (17:21)
criticizing you, but I think that's easy to say when you don't have the desperation Millie has, which I think Freida does a really good job of laying out for the reader all the things that you're saying. You know, she didn't have job prospects. She was living in her car. She just got out of prison. And again, we don't find out why, but I think for Millie, the reason she stays is because this is not as bad as prison.

Like I think bottom line is like, yeah, there's this crazy person and she's creating chaos for me, but guess what? I'm free. I can, I don't have to be here. I can be here and it seems crazy, but I can leave at any time. So she thinks.

Jon (18:04)
So she thinks that's true. That's a great point. It's not prison. That's a great perspective. It's like, I do have the freedom to leave. What she didn't really have before. So yeah, good point.

Kristy (18:13)
Yeah.

But I guess as a follow-up though, at what point do you, if you're Millie, you consider quitting your job?

Jon (18:21)
mean, I think we've already established that it would have been pretty early for me to have a point to like, if I'm Millie

Kristy (18:24)
No, if you're Millie though. Like, do you think there's a

thing if you're Millie or is she just like, whatever, as long as they don't lock me in my room throw away the key, this is not as bad as like being in prison and living in my car.

Jon (18:38)
Yeah, that's probably her bar. Yeah, unless she like feels physically threatened or whatever, which you know, ultimately she does. Yeah, you're right. It's like, you know what, she is fucking crazy. But Yeah, I'm free. And I'm making money and I can check in with my parole officer, I'm going to save to get my own place and blah, blah, blah, or whatever. So yeah, I get it. Kind of.

Kristy (18:41)
Right, and that's...

Kristy (19:04)
So much of this book is about control, emotional, financial, and physical. Who actually holds the power in the story?

Jon (19:11)
man, I feel like my answer might change based on what part of the book I'm in. feel like if I'm reading part one, I'm thinking that like, okay. Andrew feels a little kind of in control or maybe I don't, I don't know. This is a tough question. could, but the way I think I would answer it right now would be, I feel like oddly enough has

the control. after you learn after from part two, how she's manipulating Millie and the conversations she has with Enzo and that this is all a plan and this is all a strategy for her to get to be able to get out of the house with her daughter. So I think I would answer that with Nina.

Kristy (19:59)
Yeah. I think your ⁓ first instinct that depending on where you are in the book, your answer changes. But I actually thought of this as kind of circular and why we have this dynamic between the characters is I feel like Andrew has physical control over Nina. Nina has financial control over Millie because Millie needs that or wants the job. She wants to make this money.

Jon (20:22)
Millie.

Kristy (20:28)
Millie has emotional control in a way over Andrew because remember when Nina says like, Andrew like needs that like validation and from like women and things like that. I think...

Jon (20:38)
validation.

Kristy (20:42)
Nina has not filled that for him in a while. So now Millie is like filling that bucket for him, which obviously transitions as we get later in the story. But I kind of thought about it that way. I mean, because after I wrote the question, was like, how am I going to answer this question?

Jon (20:56)
you

Yeah, I mean, yeah, that checks. think you just said it more eloquently than, than me that it kind of dependent on where it was in the book that I think I would probably have a different answer. But yeah, each person kind of has a different kind of control over another character in, the book. Yeah, I think that's a great way to answer that.

Kristy (21:13)
Yeah.

So you talked a little bit about this already, but how did your feelings toward Nina shift over the course of the book?

Jon (21:20)
⁓

that first part of the book, I was just like,

Kristy (21:26)
This is the worst woman ever.

Jon (21:26)
I don't even know. I don't even have the word. Yeah. Just like

how, how do you flip a switch? Like clearly manic. shouldn't say clearly, but it was like a manic bipolar type change of one second. You're the best Millie. We're so lucky to have you here.

And then throwing cartons of milk and wondering where the fuck her notes are about a PTA meeting that she just reprint off from her computer. Just mind boggling kind of stuff or the clothes or like giving her the clothes and then saying, you stole those from me. I never gave those to you. Or when she has her posh PTA meeting or whatever it is and asking him really to like stand in the background, but then being like, what are you doing? You don't belong here. Like

push, push, move on, or whatever it is she says, push, push, push. Because that's how posh women talk in my head. So yeah, I, she just, it was like nails on a chalkboard through that whole first part of the book, but it wasn't till part two, I was like, ⁓

Kristy (22:16)
Pish, pish.

At no point though in the first, again, I agree with you that she's horrible, but at no point when they talk about like the medication she's on and we're hearing from, I mean, it's like through the Lindsay's, through Millie's lens that we get some of the narrative from Andrew, but at no point did you think, ⁓ she's like schizophrenic.

Jon (22:47)
lens of Millie. Yeah.

Kristy (22:59)
or bipolar or did you have no empathy for her at all that maybe there was actually medical because we also hear she's institutionalized we don't know why yet but did you have no empathy at all for her?

Jon (23:08)
Yeah.

I mean, sure. Okay, wait, it was it was very short. But also, okay, here, here's what you're doing to me by making me read all these books. You're changing the way my brain is enjoying these stories now because now I'm like, searching and like, Andrew, it is super annoying. I don't like it. Because I'm like, Andrew's being too nice.

Kristy (23:12)
That string was very short though.

The searching. It's actually annoying, isn't it? It's so fucking annoying. Like, I...

Jon (23:35)
So he's not as nice as he seems. This is just too much. And then I'm like, knowing the characters and I also said to you, it spoiled it a little for me that the movie came out before I read it because I'm like, it's only the two women that are in all the interviews for this movie. Like he's not anywhere in any of like the promotional stuff. It's, it's all just Amanda and Sydney.

Kristy (23:39)
Yeah.

Sydney.

Jon (24:01)
And so I'm like, okay, there's, there's got to be something there. So now I'm like trying to piece that into what I'm reading. Yeah, you've you've ruined books for me. You've ruined them.

Kristy (24:14)
think what you meant to say is that I have made you a more careful reader. That's what I heard.

Jon (24:21)
Whatever else, sleep at night. ⁓

Kristy (24:24)
It

is annoying. I actually just finished reading a book yesterday and I had this thought to myself. I'm like, I don't know what is going on. There's actually, I have so many thoughts that I just cannot, it was another thriller. I cannot piece it together and I'm not even gonna try. I'm just enjoying the ride.

Jon (24:45)
Whoa, it's so much more fun.

Kristy (24:47)
Well, sometimes I like figuring things out though. Like that's a me. I love puzzles. So.

Jon (24:50)
I know you do. Yeah,

that's a, that is a you

Kristy (24:55)
Alright, so if you were Nina, how do you think you might have handled the situation differently?

Or do you?

Jon (25:00)
If I was

Nina, how would I have handled Andrew differently?

Kristy (25:03)
Yeah, like do you actually feel like all the way it seems like an impossible situation and the thing she brings up about he could have her institutionalized, he already has, he's turned her like family, or sorry, friend circle against her and he's set, put things in motion that will happen if something happens to him or whatever. Like he has this like...

these things hanging over her that he is controlling her with. So was there anything that you thought of like, she could have done this or you think you would have just rolled the dice and like, peace out, Billy.

Jon (25:40)
don't know. think I would have felt really trapped if I was Nina. I think he spawned such a deep and complicated web. I just don't know. I mean, the fact that she tried like her first attempt with Enzo to hide and stash money and fake IDs in a

locker like totally off prem somewhere totally else and he still found that and he had, you know, they alluded to him having friends in powerful places, like friends with like the chief of police or captain or something like that. And so, no, I would have felt entirely trapped in, in that I don't know how I would have tried to escape. I would have gone mad too.

Kristy (26:02)
Who know? Yeah.

Yeah.

So the only thing I thought of that she maybe could have done because she does blackmail the gynecologist that gives her or fertility specialist, whatever, that puts her IUD in. And I was like, okay, well, every time he locks her up and she has like crazy stuff happened to her body because like one time she has to spray herself with pepper spray and like all these crazy things.

Jon (26:34)
yeah, the fertility specialist.

Pepper spray.

Kristy (26:51)
Imagine there are signs of that. I thought of, well, maybe she could go to the doctor under the guise of like the fertility, take a bunch of photos, maybe have Enzo meet her there, take a bunch of photos, like documentation of it, and then like save those. That was the only thing I could think of like, or she could even do it at home. Like if he's not there, like document everything you can on video on

Jon (27:12)
Maybe.

Kristy (27:21)
like film and then like give that to Enzo and have him do something with it.

Jon (27:29)
Yeah, I just, I just really think there would be no confidence. And the fear of him finding that without way. And the risk of him finding that kind of stuff, I think without way doing it.

Kristy (27:44)
I mean, she's

already in a horrible, like the things he does to her. mean, it's...

Jon (27:51)
Yeah, it's unfathomable.

Kristy (27:54)
It's like... It's torture. It's torture. So like, really, how much worse could it have gotten?

Jon (27:57)
It's torture. Yeah, it's a mental and physically.

I bet he has an answer for that.

Kristy (28:04)
Probably.

All right. So good transition. Which scene in the book was the most memorable for you?

Jon (28:11)
man.

There's so many awful scenes. I think for Nina was probably the pepper spray. I just couldn't.

Kristy (28:20)
Mm.

Pull it, pull the trigger, I know.

Jon (28:24)
No, no, I like

and have to keep my eyes open because he's watching he's like can't close your eyes like your eyes have to be open like I don't think I could do it. And then if I eyes closed and knowing the pain and have to do it again. No. So that that one for me. I don't know if it was or not. I'm just saying like, very plausible that yeah. Because he made her pull the hair thing out, you know, more other ones too, which you'll get to so

Kristy (28:38)
Was that one she had to do twice? okay. Yeah. I know. Awful. ⁓ either way.

⁓ yeah.

Jon (28:52)
But I mean, Nina aside, I think the most awful would be like pulling having to pull my teeth. I don't think with a fucking pliers like no, sorry, that's not gonna happen. Millie Awful. You've already alluded to which one is stuck in your brain forever and ever.

Kristy (29:00)
Yeah, that's pretty good.

Awful. Awful.

mean, the hair one is just...

Jon (29:19)
It's death by 1000 cuts. Like that's how I think of that one.

Kristy (29:21)
It, I

just like my scalp hurts thinking about it and then doing a hundred and then doing it again. ⁓ my gosh. And it, it, it is not even the physical, it is a physical pain, but it's not even the physical pain. It's the, the.

Jon (29:32)
Yeah.

Kristy (29:41)
my God, like just the sadistic nature of it. I just like can't stop thinking about it.

Jon (29:47)
Yeah, it seems so simple on the surface. Like, oh, it's just a couple. It's just a couple of hairs. But it's not it's 100. I know. But I mean, I remember reading that and thinking I can barely handle when you pluck a couple of my eyebrows. I'm like, there's no fucking way I could handle that multiple times over. I was brutal.

Kristy (29:50)
Yeah.

It's not just a couple, it's a hundred.

Right? Right.

I mean, I have really long hair, so was thinking like, it easier or better than having a short hair? But at the end of the day, like he wants the follicles right on the hair. So you have to pull it from like, yeah, from close to the root, otherwise you're not gonna get it.

Jon (30:21)
Root. Yeah.

from the root.

terrible

Kristy (30:32)
I know,

awful.

So when you finished the book, what was your immediate reaction? Shock, satisfaction, or frustration?

Jon (30:43)
what I'm about to say I'm going to take with like an asterisk because I, I actually felt a little bit that Andrew's demise was a little like anticlimactic. And I mean that all of these terrible things, she gets him in the room once and then he's like, and then he's dead and then he's just dead. and we'll get to this, the movie played out a little bit differently and we'll get to that, but

So I wasn't like I wouldn't say I was shocked by that, that ending.

Kristy (31:13)
I didn't care that he died. That like didn't seem anti-climactic to me because...

I think.

Jon (31:19)
I just thought

there'd be more struggle with it. And he was just like,

Kristy (31:22)
⁓ well, I

it was, I don't think there was more struggle because like it's clear that from, think the rest of the narrative that you can't, once you're in that room, the only way to get out is if someone lets you out and she never let him out. but the kicker for me is the mom. Like the mom basically knew what happened and was like,

Jon (31:36)
Yeah.

Yeah.

⁓ yeah, you're right.

Kristy (31:48)
That's what you get for not taking care of your teeth. I know.

Jon (31:50)
Yeah, that was pretty, pretty fucked up at his funeral.

but you say that and then I also I did have thoughts through the book though, because again, you ruin reading for me that when the mom was introduced, I'm like, she because she would like go up to him and not give him a kiss on the cheek, but like straighten his tie or something or whatever. And I'm like, okay, she's, I think she clearly has a similar type as him. And so there's got to be like, he's getting it from her. Obviously, I didn't know what kind of

Kristy (32:12)
Yeah.

obsessed with appearance and yeah, same as him.

Jon (32:23)
what level of detail but she did something that he's like carrying out on now on these women.

Kristy (32:29)
All right, so we're going to transition about the film. So if you haven't seen it and you don't want spoilers, you should pause here.

All right, just give me your first reactions to the film. Did it feel like the same story as the book?

Jon (32:41)
I felt like it was trying to force the book into a screenplay and not taking in and forgetting to take into account that it was a movie that is film. It just Yeah, it just missed on so many of the parts and I know we've talked about this. One of the hardest parts about film adaptations is like in books, you get so much inner dialogue and you get so much mental narration that

Kristy (32:51)
That is film. Yeah. And it can't be the same.

Jon (33:09)
You can't just make every movie have a voiceover narrator, otherwise they would all be boring. And I just don't think the way that the filmmakers took this worked. Like I just felt no connection. I felt no empathy for these characters from watching the film. And I was like, it just jumped right into stuff. I'm like, I have no relation with this. I don't understand. So I think that was probably my biggest.

nuance and like overall point of view of the movie versus the book.

Kristy (33:39)
Yeah,

people really like this film and I just don't understand I get it maybe if you didn't read the book and I can never unknow reading the book and go into it with that. So I have no idea what that's like, but I didn't like it. I don't want say I didn't like it at all, but

Jon (33:45)
Hmm.

Yeah.

Kristy (33:59)
I just don't think it did the book justice. I think exactly what you're saying. There were so many moments where was like, this is a line from the book we have to fit this in, or this is like a specific tiny detail in the book that we have to fit in. And it made no sense to actually the storyline because it is a little different. And it just felt like these forced scenes, like they didn't, it just didn't flow.

Jon (34:09)
Yeah.

Yeah.

Kristy (34:29)
look, I think Amanda Siegfried is amazing. I think Sydney Sweeney is amazing. I didn't love either of them in this film. And I know a lot of people loved Amanda as Nina. And I thought actually it's not like I thought the casting was bad by any means. I think they're great actresses, but I don't know. It felt so forced to me and

Jon (34:51)
so to me, performances like that come down to directing and it reminded me of a little bit of like episodes one, two, and three of the Star Wars movies when that George Lucas directed, like everything just felt like hit your marks, say your line, hit your marks, say your line. And it just didn't feel like a narrate like, uh, a smooth narration or like a, a realistic dialogue between people. just was like,

Kristy (34:54)
Mm.

Hmm. Yeah, yeah, that's actually really good. Yeah.

Jon (35:15)
hit your line, say your line. And there's nothing like that's not on the actors. Like I feel like the actors did probably the best they could, but I feel like that kind of performance is on directing.

Kristy (35:26)
Yeah.

So let's talk about our villain. Do you feel like Andrew read differently on screen? More vulnerable, more sinister or about the same that you expected from the book?

Jon (35:36)
I didn't really feel any sinister ism. Is that a word? I just senator sinister ism from him. again, it's just kind of the same thing as I didn't build up any kind of relationship from him. felt more empathy for him actually through having to deal with Nina than I did like, because we don't get any we don't really get any of Nina's backstory to create

Kristy (35:42)
It is now. Sinisterisms.

Jon (36:04)
empathy for her and what has gone through in order to create hatred for him. And so you're just kind of left with this guy who has a hard life with his wife has an affair. And then like, you get a little bit of it, but I don't know, there just wasn't enough. There just wasn't enough for me to be like, this guy's bad. And again, I think it comes down to like, you don't get enough of that.

Kristy (36:28)
Yeah.

Jon (36:32)
inner dialogue and explanation of all the things that he's actually done are like the psychological that he's committed on Nina. So my answer to that would be less sinister than he read in the book. And

Kristy (36:49)
Yeah, I totally agree with that. I also feel like in the book, you develop an empathy for him as you're seeing the Nina, sorry, the Millie chapters and part one unfold. And you're like, my gosh, she's like standing by her and she seems to have these like some mental illness problems or mental health problems. And she was institutionalized and this kid isn't even biologically his, but he's raising it and

Jon (37:14)
His, yeah

Kristy (37:16)
We see these stories about that and I think you develop empathy for him. And then when he turns out to be a total crazy person and a villain, it's like, ⁓ And that did not at all to me translate. So I said this to you, but I wanted to compare it to, and you said you haven't seen this, but there was a film in the nineties called Fear with Mark

Jon (37:29)
Translate

Kristy (37:40)
he comes to the, like, he seems like a perfectly, there are like maybe some weird things, but he's all for all intents and purposes. You're like, okay, this guy's kind of like trying to be a good boyfriend, but he comes to the door and he's like, he's like, let me in the door. And you like, I felt like that, my, yes, a visceral reaction, like, my gosh, it would be horrifying. And I felt that in the book.

Jon (37:57)
They're like a visceral reaction. Yeah.

Kristy (38:04)
with Andrew and then on the screen I'm like, no, you're just acting angry. You're just acting angry. Because that's what you're supposed to act.

Jon (38:08)
Yeah, not the same. Yeah, yeah, agreed.

Yeah. And again, I think that's directing. I really do. So.

Kristy (38:19)
What do you think were the biggest changes from the book to the film?

Jon (38:23)
The ending.

how he dies.

Kristy (38:26)
Is that it? Is that the only, the biggest change you've had? ⁓ Well, I have a follow-up question. I have a follow-up. I guess the full question is biggest changes and do you feel like whatever those were, do you feel like they helped the story or weakened the story?

Jon (38:27)
No, like you were were it's look like you were processing like either I couldn't tell if you wanted to say something. Yeah. Okay.

Okay, I'll stick with my initial answer and say I think it's the ending that was the biggest pivot from the book. He doesn't die from starvation or just being locked in that room or bled out or whatever it wound up being from pulling his teeth out. But but Nina comes back thinking Millie's

Kristy (39:00)
Heh.

Jon (39:06)
locked up there and winds up unlocking the door which lets him out which turns into a whole like chase scene which made for better TV.

Kristy (39:12)
Which that does

happen in the book. She thinks that Millie's in there and she unlocks it, but Andrew's dead. Yeah.

Jon (39:19)
Yes, right. Yeah.

And that makes for the whole like chase scene. think that was like a way for the filmmakers to try to communicate how crazy he really was in like cliche kind of And then he dies falling, getting pushed down the stairs, but are appealing pushed over the railing, which in this, I knew that was gonna happen to like,

Kristy (39:41)
I knew that was gonna happen right away, because

they talked about it. I know, was like, well, yeah.

Jon (39:44)
Well, and she looks up in the film when she's

doing the tour of the home that she stops in the middle of stairway and looks straight up and like, Oh, that's gonna come into play. What are these things? Why did you make my brain like this? I just want to watch the So did it help the story? I think it helped the narrative of the medium. I don't know that it helped the

Kristy (39:50)
Yep. Yeah. Yeah.

I know, right? ⁓

You'll never be the same.

Jon (40:08)
So anyway, what are your thoughts? I see your wheels turning from all the way over here.

Kristy (40:14)
a lot. So

I think there was a lot of things that were different. And again, I understand that things have to be different because like you're saying the medium is different. Like you don't have internal dialogue. You don't have hours and hours of backstory. I actually think this adaptation should have been a ⁓ TV series, a limited TV series. Actually, it could have been more because they could totally do book two

But I don't, you don't have that when you have a two hour film. So you have to cut things, you have to make changes, you have to give different representation of things for your watcher. But I think a few things that like I just wrote down was like Cece's role was different and she actually played a role later on. Enzo's role was like basically non-existent. And honestly, I think he could have not even been in the film.

Jon (40:57)
yeah, that's right. Non-existent.

Kristy (41:06)
That's how like insignificant he was, except he was nice to look at. Millie writing in the journal, didn't like it. I'll talk about why Nina writing the note to Cece, which is how we got her internal dialogue. Again, there are other ways to show internal dialogue and give a narrative on film besides actually writing a letter to someone. I thought that was just like lazy, super lazy writing.

Jon (41:06)
Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Kristy (41:34)
⁓ the stack of books, like it being.

⁓ Millie having to cut herself versus the stack of books. I didn't actually like that at all. And I don't feel like Andrew would have done that because Andrew was very much about appearance. We said that he wanted to have a child. He wanted to have a child with this person and he's going to make her cut her stomach 20 times or whatever it was. I don't think so. I didn't like that at all. I also didn't like watching that at all. was horrible. Yeah, I was squirming.

Jon (41:38)
⁓ yeah. ⁓ yeah. That's right. Yeah, that was a big deviation. I didn't either.

Yeah.

Yeah, I agree. That was a

No, we both like squirmed in the theater

like, Nope, I don't even see

Kristy (42:07)
I was squirming

But one thing I actually, I don't want to say like I thought it was better or whatever, but I didn't mind at all was that the police officer in the book that's the father of Catherine and kind of doesn't question things ends up being a sister. I liked that because to me, it just highlights women really getting that this thing happens even with

Jon (42:22)
Yeah, sister.

Kristy (42:32)
extremely good looking men that like a lot of people want to turn a blind eye to, including the people on the internet right now who are saying they would ignore Andrew's red flags. I think that is sick and disgusting. And like part of this book is showing that like men and predators and abusers come in all shapes and sizes and even really freaking hot ones. anyway, but I thought that I liked that change. Okay.

Jon (42:49)
all shapes and sizes.

Kristy (42:57)
I'm going to ruin some more things for you. So the reason I didn't like the whole down the staircase thing is because, or like her cutting herself also, we'd already talked about that, but like after she cuts herself, she like goes around the house and like is eating and like washing her hands and like opening cabinets and

Jon (43:00)
Wait, let me hit mute.

Kristy (43:26)
she gets blood on like one of the stairs. She's getting her DNA every fucking place in this house. Okay. And then think that for a police officer in the book to come in and just find this guy was suspicious

There's going to be other police officers there. And like there's DNA and blood everywhere in this house. Like that can't be ignored.

Jon (43:46)
Yeah.

Kristy (43:51)
I was like, DNA, ⁓ DNA, everywhere. It's everywhere. Your blood is everywhere.

Jon (43:56)
Yeah. I mean, I didn't think about that. would, I was just like, there's no way she'd be that bouncy and that like, what you do take some Advil or something like, no.

Kristy (43:58)
You're contaminating everything.

I don't

even remember. ⁓ you're just saying you're just speculating. Okay. Yeah.

Jon (44:11)
I'm just saying like that just

doesn't seem that just didn't seem realistic based on like the pain she just inflicted upon herself.

Kristy (44:18)
Yep.

Alright, if you're adapting this story, what's one thing you'd change?

Jon (44:23)
One thing.

Kristy (44:25)
Name some things you change. What could have been better for you?

Jon (44:30)
a different mechanism to deliver a better backstory and actually help me empathize and understand these characters more like that. was just thrown in.

And I really like, talked about this out right after the movie is like, I realized that's how the book starts. The book starts, you're thrown in with you know, interviewing or, or, ⁓ yeah, interviewing at the, at the house, but you're also getting all that extra information on what led her there and we hear everything. I just, you just don't get any of that. And that was really disappointing. So that would be where I put my focus and energy. The, the other changes.

Kristy (44:57)
Yeah, we hear everything from her.

Yeah.

Jon (45:08)
you know, creative, what do call it? liberties, liberty, liberty, liberty, liberty, that it was all fine. But yeah, for me, it's just really, I just felt nothing for these characters, unfortunately.

Kristy (45:13)
Creative liberties?

Yeah, I agree with you on the backstory. We talked about that already, actually, like right when we left the film, because that was the hardest thing for me. And it just didn't set it up right to connect with the characters and to understand what they're going through. And instead you have these forced there is no internal monologue. Like, so you have to explain it to the viewer. So it felt like these points in the book that are just forced on screen where

Jon (45:33)
Yeah.

Kristy (45:49)
I realized there was time constraint. And again, I think this would have been much better for TV, but I think instead of opening up right where the book opens up, you could have opened up with like her leaving prison and then like had some scenes where she is the scene where she's visiting a parole officer, where she loses the job, a scene maybe like where it actually shows why she lost the job instead of this like rage.

Jon (46:01)
present.

Hmm.

Kristy (46:18)
random scene later on, I didn't like that at all. I will say that I don't think the script Sydney any favors of making her seem like, I don't wanna say sinister is not the right word, because that's how I would describe Andrew, but like this dangerous, yeah, dangerous, maybe dangerous isn't the right word either, but dark.

Jon (46:35)
damaged.

Kristy (46:41)
past individual. it's still, no, it just see, it still felt like that was forced where I felt like if we could have seen her in those moments, actually like defending a coworker or whatever, that would have been way better. And I actually don't think, I don't like, I don't like the letter that Nina wrote to Cece. I didn't hate the journal, but the journal needs to start much sooner.

Jon (46:43)
She has a dark passenger.

Yeah.

Kristy (47:11)
in the way it's presented and not just like these one or two random slots.

Jon (47:16)
agreed. I think the journal was a good mechanism or could have been a good mechanism. It just wasn't utilized enough or like in the right way.

Kristy (47:16)
Like, I didn't like that at all. Yeah.

Right, it needed to be like,

this is, she writes in a journal frequently and I think all those things. Okay. Do you have any final thoughts about this book? Would you recommend the book and or the film to our listeners?

Jon (47:28)
Yeah. ⁓

I- yeah, I think both. I...

think like what you've said before, if you haven't read a Freida book before, this would be this is a great one start with. I

I think I would recommend to go see the movie.

Kristy (47:57)
Like I said, there's a lot of people who like it, so maybe we're the crazy ones.

Jon (47:59)
Yeah, and we probably

are.

Yeah, I yeah, just going to the movie, knowing that it's not

of one for well, maybe the problem is that it is too much just go to the movie and now which so I don't know that I gave a ton of thoughts but I would say I wouldn't know I wouldn't tell someone to not go see the movie but I definitely tell someone to read the book

Kristy (48:10)
Just go in the movie knowing you're going to be disappointed. I'm just kidding.

I wouldn't tell someone, yeah,

I actually wouldn't tell someone to not see the movie either. I would absolutely recommend the book. Again, it's my favorite Freida book. I think if you like this one, you can definitely read the second one in the series. If you're adventurous, read the third I have recommended this book a lot actually. And the film, yeah, I would not recommend it, but I'm not, I'm probably not gonna rewatch it.

Jon (48:49)
It's a C.

Yeah, I'd rate it a C plus.

Kristy (48:55)
It's just, it was disappointing for me because of the book. But again, I cannot look at it through the lens of having not read the book. So I cannot rate it as a film.

Jon (48:58)
because of how good the book was.

Right.

Kristy (49:10)
Well, those are our final thoughts. And with that, we wanted to remind everyone that the next two books in our lineup are Rita Hayworth and Shawshank Redemption by Stephen King and People We Meet on Vacation by Emily Henry. And as always, don't forget that a free way to support our show is by leaving us a review and rating us on Apple don't want to rate us, but you have a question or feedback on the show, you can email us at booksimakemyhusbandread at gmail.com and we would love to hear from you.

Jon (49:39)
We would. And hey, if you like the show, tell a friend. I'm sure you've got some book buddies hanging around. You could be Hey, have you heard about this podcast? You should check it out. crazy, mildly entertaining. But you should check it out. We think we're funny.

Kristy (49:48)
These people are crazy.

Our moms think we're I

do think we're funny.

Jon (50:00)
Anyway.

Kristy (50:03)
Alright, I guess that's it.

Jon (50:04)
That's another one in the books, the first one of the season.

Kristy (50:08)
Yep. Well, who knows? Maybe this will be the one your husband reads.

Jon (50:11)
and hopefully he's not sadistic.

Kristy (50:14)
Not run. us. Blink twice if you're in danger.

Jon (50:16)
Good.

Bye!

Kristy (50:21)
See ya.

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