Why do you think I would sing like a canary? What is, why, where is this coming from? You're an honest person. You're not a liar. I call you a liar and a thief sometimes, but you're actually really nice.

Hello listeners and welcome to this week's episode of Books I Make My Husband Read. I'm your host Kristy and this is my co-host, my husband, whom I make read the books. And my name is Jon. This week we'll be discussing The Boyfriend, a psychological thriller about obsession and the things we'll do for love. New York Times bestselling author, Frieda McFadden, proves that crimes of passion are often the bloodiest. That's an understatement for that book, but...

Before we get into our discussion, want to share the upcoming books that we'll be discussing, aka the ones that Kristy's going to force me to read. They are A Very Merry Bromance by Lyssa Kay Adams. Doesn't that make you just feel all ooey gooey inside? A very merry bromance. It does. I'm actually secretly, not so secretly anymore, excited to read this one. Warm up a little cinnamon roll, get your coffee ready.

Little dab of cinnamon on top. Little nutmeg. That sounds delicious actually. Can we have that for breakfast tomorrow? I we were having pumpkin cheesecake for breakfast tomorrow. It's all part of balanced diet. Yeah, for sure. I support this decision. And then that's it. That's going to be the last book of this first season. We will have one more episode though. We're going to do a recap of our first season.

Then we're going to take a little break over the holidays as we prep for what we're going to dub season two, probably to come out sometime in February. Yeah, I'm excited for the recap episode. But in the meantime, don't forget that you can keep up with all of our upcoming episodes by following us on Instagram at Books I Make My Husband Read. And while you're there, you can drop us a comment or send us a DM if you have questions or anything you'd like us to answer in the show. And this week...

We have a question, actually two questions, from Sarah in St. Paul. She asks if we have any gift ideas for book lovers this holiday season. And yes I do. So you can always buy the book lovers in your life or the non book lovers in your life who you would like to read the books, a book, a book that you liked and enjoyed, and then give them a reason why you think that they'll love it.

Don't just hand them the book, like give them a specific reason to get them invested. And if you go on Etsy, they have a lot of personalized products for the book lovers in your life. You can do like a really nice leather monogram bookmark. I've actually given and gotten that from different people. And I also received from my sister-in-law actually a really nice stamp that you can put in all your books. It says from the library of Kristy

And then also if you have a book lover in your life who is into a series like fourth wing or any other Sarah J Maas series, like they have personalized theme gifts like shirts and bracelets and hats and like all different things related to the books. I also recommend like audible subscriptions or book of the month. Like those are great guests as well. Any gifts you can think of? No.

I'm a terrible gift giver. And moving on. And then the second question we received was, would either of you consider writing a book? And if so, what genre? So I have an answer, but I'm curious, Jon, if you have an answer to this. I definitely have never considered writing my own book. I watched my cousin go through it. It wasn't like it was a graphic novel. It wasn't a traditional novel, but I watched him go through the steps and the editing process. And I'm like,

No, thank you. I don't need that in my life. I'll just enjoy the end product. Yeah. I have two books swirling around in my head. The first one is a rom-com and I'm not going to give you the details because it's very specific to the storyline. The second book is what I would call like a literary fiction novel that what I would say is a societal issue that I think more people could be informed on. And instead of writing, you know, a research paper or research book, I would like to tell the narrative through a fiction book to get people more invested in the problem. And this is something that I would probably, feel like right before the rom-com because I just feel so strongly about it. And it's been swirling in my head for a long time. actually reached out to past professors, both in undergrad and grad school that I had to help figure out how I could do this.

Time is just a big factor. Yeah, I bet. And I don't necessarily know that I have all the resources that I need now. And this might take me 10 years to write, but I feel really strongly about it that it's something that I want to do. fully support this endeavor. Thanks for the question, Sarah. And as Kristy mentioned, if you have a question, you can message us on Instagram or email us at booksimakemyhusbandread @ gmail.com. We'll be sure to answer any of your burning questions in an upcoming episode. And hey, remember, we will have spoilers in this episode, but don't worry. We'll warn you before we let the plot twist escape like a cat on caffeine. All right, I'm going to do the book summary or we're going to do the book summary, but this is non-spoiler summary. Sydney Shaw, like every single woman in New York, has terrible luck with dating.

She's seen it all. Men who lie in their dating profile, men who stick her with the dinner bill, and worse of all, men who can't shut up about their mothers. Even ones who FaceTime their mothers during their first date. That's fucked up. But finally, she's hit the jackpot. That's right. Her new boyfriend is utterly perfect. He's charming and handsome and works as a doctor. Is he Pritzcharming? Nice one. Continue. Okay, thanks.

Yes, her boyfriend is perfect. He's charming, handsome, not Pritzcharming, and works as a doctor at a local hospital. Sydney is swept quite literally off her feet. But then the brutal murder of a young woman, the latest in a string of deaths across the coast, confounds the police. The primary suspect? A mystery man who dates his victims before he kills him. What? But Sydney should feel safe. After all, she's dating the guy of her dreams.

But she can't shake her own suspicions that the perfect man may not be as perfect as he seems. Because someone is watching her every move, and if she doesn't get to the truth, she'll be the killer's next victim. Dun dun dun! You nailed it. We're hilarious.

All right, anything from this point now after the summary will contain spoilers. You have been warned. Here comes a swoosh.

Okay, before we talk about what we read the book and dive into our discussion, I think I'm do a quick summary. This again is going to contain spoilers if you haven't read the book and don't wanna be spoiled, exit now. But I think that for those who haven't and are still listening and want to continue listening, it'll just help with you understanding our discussion. So the story is told from two different timelines. Sydney, a woman in her mid 30s who is doing a poor job of trying to navigate the dating world.

And then we have a high school boy named Tom who eventually becomes Sydney's present day romantic interest. So we hear from Sydney present day and then Tom from in the past. So for all intents and purposes, Tom seems like an ideal boyfriend. He's charming, he's handsome, and he is a doctor. However, as a relationship progresses, Sydney starts to have doubts and ignores a lot of red flags about Tom.

Simultaneously, she learns about a series of gruesome murders, one of which is her friend Bonnie, who finds victims through a dating app. Eventually, Sydney begins to suspect that her boyfriend may be the killer, and to be fair, all evidence does point to Tom. In parallel, we learn about Tom's past, which is marked by an abusive father, an obsessive high school relationship with his girlfriend Daisy, and a dark side that leads to Tom killing his father. Eventually, we learn that Gretchen,

Sydney's present-day best friend is actually Daisy, Tom's high school girlfriend. Daisy, as it turns out, was just as obsessed with Tom as he was with her. And in fact, her obsessiveness leads her to commit multiple murders, specifically the women Tom dates after high school because she wants to keep him all to herself. The back and forth suspense grows as the past and present timelines lead to the disturbing fates of Tom, Daisy, and Sydney.

Nice work. Thank you. That was a mouthful. Okay, let's talk about what we read in the book. Okay. Do I go first this time? Yes. Okay. Well, mic drop. I gave it four stars. Why are you dropping the mic on four stars? I don't know. That's just what rolled off my tongue. I'll probably edit that out. Better keep that in. Yeah. I like the pace. I did feel like it kept me turning the proverbial page. Sydney's character kind of drove me bonkers. She drove me bonkers too. I wanted to shake her. Yes, yeah, exactly. I liked Tom's backstory woven through the main timeline. It made me think a little bit of the movie Memento. It was kind of like this backstory events leading up to the same sort of point in time of current time. I love that movie. It's one of my all time favorites.

It's a little bit of a mind fuck though. It is, yeah, that movie definitely is. This is a genre that I read the most of, not necessarily a Freedom McFadden, but just like thrillers or whodunit kind of books. so I definitely felt like my bar was a little higher, a little different than other books you've had me read just because I'm more familiar with the genre. So that's why I gave it. Where'd you land? I give it four stars.

I think I have given most of Freida books four stars, which I don't think is bad. I just think that I usually can predict who the killer is or I have a sense before we get to the real, you know, killer. But then also, I do feel like most Freida books, the female main character needs to be 'shookith'

So for me, that's a little annoying because sometimes I'm like red flag girl, red flag, burning hot red flag and it just ignored. So sometimes that's just like annoying to me. Like, can we, can you write a smart, confident character who's a badass and is not taking this shit? But I think that they're easy to read. She has a way of just like drawing you in.

And from the first chapter on, I just feel like I can't put it down. need to know. Even though, again, it's not like this is the best book I have ever read, but it's just that fast paced, nonstop, keeps me interested, keeps me hooked. There's only been one or one and a half that I was just like real disappointed with. But I'll read anything she puts out because I just think it's I think it's great. think it's worth reading. And if you like, you know, mystery thrillers like this is definitely it. But it also means like what?

Three, I don't know how long is it 300 pages. It's not it's not a super long book. You it's not a huge time. Yeah, exactly But I really like it. Nice. Okay. So how do you feel moving on to our questions? How do you feel about stories where normal people turn out to have dark secrets and does it seem realistic to you?

I kind of love that part about stories in general. It makes me think of shows like Dexter and Breaking Bad, where you just have these seemingly normal functioning human beings that have this dark passenger with them hiding behind there. You love the idea of a dark passenger. I really do. You have talked about this multiple times. You love Batman. It's so fascinating to me, that dichotomy that they can just like split the two and compartmentalize. But anyway.

It seems realistic that normal people capable of doing terrible things and 100%. I think every single person is capable of murder. And I mean, every single person is just circumstance. State of mind, who, where, like all those things. I think functional psychopaths are just like the scariest people in the block because you just you can't see them. They're just hiding in plain sight.

I also think that back to like the dark secret thing, not that everyone has people they killed in their past or things like that. I mean, maybe, but I do think people are carrying around secrets that they don't share with other people that would probably surprise other people that they knew. For instance, I'm about to drop one on you that you don't even know. Ooh, hit me. I'm just kidding. have nothing. come on.

That would have been so good. I know. That would have been our best episode yet. I should have just made something up. nuts. But I think that it's totally realistic. think that characters like that can be relatable because they just seem like everyday people and you find yourself asking, how would I react to that? Would I do, would I be capable of that? Because their situations or circumstances seem so relatable and normal. Yeah.

Yep. So as I mentioned, this story is told between two perspectives and timelines. Did this make the read more suspenseful? And then were you able to predict any of the twisty twists? yeah, right. I really enjoy intertwined timelines. I think it impacts the pace of the story. Like you kind of get this push pull between what's about to happen and what has happened. And you try to fill in the blanks of what led to such things.

Like in Tom's particular case, the backstories of each detail that's revealed about his abusive father and all that sort of things, you start to, it's a great sort of like way to distract you from something else that might be happening that might be more important or it just makes you, it gives you so many different pieces to think about when you intertwine these different timelines and it just keeps you guessing and I enjoy that part of it.

Well, it also keeps you hooked because a lot of times a chapter might end on a cliffhanger or something happens and then you get the next timeline. You're like, no, no, no, no, I need to go. I need to stay in this timeline. That's a great point. Yes. I also want to say that if you haven't read a free book, one thing I really like is she has short chapters and I love short chapters. I cannot stand when a chapter is 30, 40 pages. Like that just drives me crazy because I will get through a book much faster. I realize it's the same way.

But I will get through a book much faster if I can get hooked on the shorter chapters. It's easy to sit and watch two hours of like four episodes of a 30 minute show for two hours and a two hour movie. I don't know why. That's a big commitment. You're right. It's the same amount of time. I don't understand why, but it totally is. like, I don't feel like watching a two hour movie, but let's sit and watch four episodes of Shrinking. Yes. Shrinking is a great show though, by the way, if you have not seen it.

Yeah, PSA, great show, AppleTV+. So you like the timelines. Did you predict any of the twists? I thought I did. Either you or you No, I didn't. I thought I had my eye focused. I knew Tom was too obvious. I had my eye on Slug for most of the book, but even that felt a little obvious, but I just never thought it would have been Daisy. It's just too, like, a female serial killer who kills other females is even seems like...

more unlikely. And so I just never let my brain even go there. Yeah. And does it such in a brutal manner too. Yeah. And the torture. Yeah. Anyway, so I should probably ask you reverse the question. It sounds like you're a fan of intertwined timelines. Do you have anything, like any other color you want to add to? So I have read enough Freida books. think I didn't look, but I know I've read at least 10 Freida books. And so I know that you're going to get a current timeline and you're usually going to get a backstory or somebody else's story who very much seems like the killer. As it was in this book, you're telling yourself it has to be Tom. Who else can it be? But because I know that, I knew it couldn't be Tom. I knew 100 % there's no way it could be Tom. Although even knowing that I did, like...

Well, maybe it does have to be Tom. Because again, the evidence is so strong against Tom, but I knew it couldn't be. So there's this weird character, Kevin, who we haven't even talked about. Who's a total creep. She goes on a date with him. He assaults her on this first date. Then he stalks her and he thinks they're like soulmates or something and is like telling her, don't give up on our relationship. He's so creepy. And I thought, is that Slug being his best friend from his childhood or is Randy who Daisy slash Gretchen is now dating Slug. And then I had a moment where I was like, is Gretchen Daisy Daisy Gretchen? Is Randy and Gretchen like, are they both like Slug and Daisy? interesting. Okay. But when I really, really knew is when

Daisy is going to meet Tom and then he shows up and he sees a body and you're supposed to think it's Daisy and I it gonna be slug. I 100 % knew it was gonna be slug. And then there is another point where Tom is afraid to go to Sydney's building where she lives and you're supposed to think, it's cause he killed Bonnie. But I was like, no, he's afraid. And that's when I was like, is it Daisy Gretchen?

Or is Slug Randy. So I knew it had to be something like that. I didn't even think about like the female thing, like, she, know, females are like killers are rare. I just knew that they seem like obsessed with each other and it just became more more apparent. But again, it still kept me guessing. I didn't predict the second twist, which was, yes, Tom leaving with Daisy. Daisy. I still think that's crazy cuckoo bananas. Yeah. And then.

I guess maybe a third twist where like they kill Kevin. They kill Kevin you bastards! It's I it's Kenny. That was creepy. So I didn't like see those things coming. I actually thought when they're in the last scene or the last scene that Daisy Gretchen, Tom are in, that Tom was actually just saying those things to get Daisy away from.

Sydney. Sydney. he really wasn't going to go with her. Yeah. That's how I, that's how I thought it was going to go to. I didn't see the second party there. Yeah. So I was really surprised that he would spend so much time trying to get away from her. He was obviously complicit in her killing these other women, but he had like a, I mean, he had somewhat a light, a life. He's this medical examiner, which

Yeah. Sydney thought was super creepy. I think it's pretty fucking awesome. But that's me. I'm a weirdo. Checks out. That checks out. You're right. But I did not see that come in that they were like so obsessed with each other that they would essentially be on the run for the rest of their lives. How do you feel like learning about Tom's past made you feel about him? Did you did your opinions like change as you learn more about his story? Like, did you feel empathy for him in any way or? I did. I definitely felt a certain level of empathy or sympathy for him. I his father was a terrible human being. The abuse and the physical and emotional abuse towards his mom that obviously had an impact on him as well. And his internal dialogue with his, you know, his struggle with his quote unquote dark passenger and his obsession with blood.

He always, he he really tried to fight it. He really tried to keep himself grounded in, I don't want to say reality. That's not the right word, but like grounded in morality. Maybe like, it's probably good. Well, I remember I read something one time or maybe this was actually on a podcast that

Most so if you haven't read the book, Tom has some disturbing thoughts like thinking how like blood would look or stab. He has dreamed like about stabbing people or things that are a little creepy. So I was listening to this. I think again, I think it was a podcast, but they said like a lot of us have those thoughts. We don't talk about it. A lot of us have those thoughts and we have a thought answer and we go, that was weird.

And we dismiss the thought because we're not going to do that. Like we have a knife in our hand and someone standing next to us and you think, what would it be like to stab this person? Like, Whoa, why did I have that thought? That was super creepy. I would never stab said person. And we move on with our lives. We don't talk about it. Imagine your inner dialogue being played out in a book like that. And I feel like that's what it is. Like I actually feel like Tom's might've had these thoughts.

But I feel like because of the abuse going on from his father, actually obsession with Daisy's obsession with him, which I actually think that messed him up more than he, I think he was actually kind of quite normal. Okay. You want to unpack that? Like, why do you think his obsession with Daisy was had? I don't think he was obsessed with Daisy. I think he was a young boy in love, since he was young, which happens. mean, he knew Daisy since he was four years old. never really, I mean, like talk to her or anything really until the book starts and begins and then they start dating. So it's not like he's showing up at her house and peeping in her window and stuff like actually Slug was doing to girls. So I feel like he had a normal crush to this girl at the time. She ends up killing for him.

Or what she thinks is for him. He kills his father. He kills his abusive father and his friend helps him clean it up. Again, he's 17, 18 years old or whatever. So he's messed up by this. Then he thinks his friend killed somebody else for him. And it turns out Daisy did it. So just like imagine all these things happening. And then you move into adulthood.

And suddenly, like this woman who you thought you loved, who he says he realizes he can't be with her anymore, is killing other women in your life. You can't have a life. You can't date anybody because you're in fear. Like this person is actually... So I actually think Tom was like quite a normal person who ended up really messed up because of Daisy. Interesting. Yeah. Okay. And because he's trauma with his father. Yeah. And a mother that lived in, like allowed him to stay in the trauma.

Very astute of you. So I have no idea. These are just my hot takes on the book. I did feel a lot of empathy for Tom. So speaking of Tom's people and people in his circle thinking about Tom's mother. So Tom were led to believe that Tom's mother actually knows that Tom killed his father. I remember like I'm not even 100 percent remembering the scene. So the father is like taunting him. Right. Yeah. Because.

Tom came home, made himself dinner, but didn't make dinner for his father when he got home. But then something else, and I feel like his dad's taunting him and... Yeah, because his dad knew about Daisy. he started talking about Daisy. Yes. Dad says he's gonna like go over Daisy's house, he knows where Daisy's bedroom is, and it's simulating that he's like gonna go over there and assault her. Yeah. So what, do you feel like his mom made the right decision by not turning him in? And what would you have done in her

It's hard to say it's right or wrong.

Just to be clear, murder is wrong. Murder is wrong. know, I know. was just gonna clarify myself with something like that. But the reasons behind are often very gray as we learned in, what was it, Heartless Hunter episode? Do we talk about gray areas and morally gray. Like, I understood why and I think she did too. mean, his father was an awful human. She knew that, I think she knew how that story was gonna end if he... wasn't killed, meaning like either Tom was going to die or she was going to die at the hands of their father. And so I think there probably was a sense of relief. Maybe like did her a favor, did them a favor, but would I have done the same? If I put myself in her exact... It's impossible, but... Right. It's impossible. In her situation, I...

I think I would have done the same thing. think I would have protected Tom too. But I actually think, well, I have a reversal question, but you can answer this question too. Like, what do you think? Was it right or wrong? Would you have done it? Like you, hard to say because if you're being abused by a partner and you're choosing to stay with that partner, while your child is also being abused as well or seeing you be abused, which is in itself a whole other trauma. don't know. However, I think that if she would have turned Tom in, it would have been better for Tom in the long run of his life. I think that he, however old he was, he wasn't, was he a senior or was he a junior? I don't know if they ever specified, maybe they did.

I don't remember. I think he probably doesn't get tried as adult. everybody knows, like there's documentation that he is at the hands of an abusive father who has been in plenty of trouble in the town. He goes to juvenile detention or whatever. He spends some time there. He probably gets the therapy that he needs and then can come out and have a productive life. He gets away from Daisy actually. Yeah. And that's another thing.

Yeah, so that was actually that's a good segue into what I was gonna ask you back. Like, I actually think the question to ask here is how would Daisy's life path change if Tom had been incarcerated for the murder of his father? Like, she wouldn't have that, I don't know, muse, but that motivator or whatever, right? Or maybe she would, maybe she'd find some other person to keep killing for. But I had that thought, like, how would her life path change if Tom had been incarcerated? Yeah.

I don't know. mean, but I think that for Tom, it would have been better. Yeah, I agree. Of course, I do think you give our justice system to which kind of think that he get the therapy that he actually needs, but that's very true. He'd at least have something, I guess. mean, like, you're absolutely right. But he would have got away from Daisy. He would have got away from Daisy. He would have been the main piece. Yes. Yep.

So Slug is obviously Tom's ride or die. After Tom kills his father, as I mentioned, Slug comes over to help, no questions asked, creepily knows exactly what to do. For real. Knows exactly how many trash bags to line his trunk with. It oddly specific, the trunk lining piece. Yeah. Do you think that makes Slug a good person? And then who would you call to help you bury a body or clean up a crime scene?

Jesus Christ, what's with all these morality questions? Good Lord. Right or wrong? Just the easy questions here. Yeah. Well, first of all, I would call you, duh, if I ever killed someone. What if I'm the one you kill? You would know how many trash bags it takes to line a trunk of a car. I feel like you would have that knowledge. I thought about this the other day. My hair. Clarify which part did you think about the other day? Let's clarify. My hair... is like is everywhere and I would leave DNA places. There's no way I could clean up a crime scene. My hair would be there. That's true. You'd have to wear a hairnet. You'd have to do a lot of Does it makes like a good person? No. I mean, does it make him a good friend? Sure. I don't know how to answer this one.

It's OK. You can say he's a good person. You can say he's a terrible person. mean, again, it's a morally gray area. It is. don't think it's I don't think he's a terrible. I don't think that makes him a terrible person. don't. Yeah, I don't. Here's the thing. It doesn't necessarily make him a good person. We're led to believe that he's a bad person. And again, he's a creep. He was peeping in girls windows. Don't like get me wrong. Like, no.

But in this specific instance about helping his friend and asking no questions, we're led to believe that he also killed Allison because she saw them loading up the trunk, but it turns out it Daisy that killed Allison. But he was willing to help his friend out with this specific thing. Does he do it if Tom calls him up for any person or does he do it specifically because he knew his friend was? His father was. Yeah.

He was so abusive. It's a great question. We should email Frieda, see what she says. Who are you calling to clean up a crime scene? You! I was serious about that. What if it's my crime scene you're cleaning up? It is always the husband. Or the boyfriend. See what I did there. yeah, good one. I don't know.

I don't know that. I need better friends and you're like, have nobody. I apparently do. I don't think I have anyone that I would call and trust with that. Maybe one guy back in Indiana. yeah, you're not going to say his name though. No, I wouldn't put him in that position. On record. On record, yeah, but you know who you are. Yeah. Because he was also my one friend in Indiana, so there was that's not true. It narrows the scope.

I was going to say that was rude, but it's not really rude when it's the truth. So anyways, so that's my take on Slug. I just, don't think I can answer that question with any sort of real clarity. Yeah, that's fair. I mean, what about you? Who would you, one, who would you call? I guess let's start there. And then do you think Slug is a good person? I already said the good person part. I think helping his friend know questions asked is a sign of loyalty and commitment to a person. Does that make you a good friend? Probably. Does it make you misguided? Maybe. But I think it makes you a good friend. Yeah. Yeah. I would agree. Now, your other question. Yeah. Who would you call? You 100 % know who I would call. I do know. It's you. Nope. Because you would sing like a canary. That's fucking rude. Tell me I'm wrong. You're probably a little wrong. really?

I wouldn't sing. You would just talk like a canary. I have two brothers and I love them both dearly. One I probably get along with a little bit better than the other one. But if I had to bury a body, I'd call the second one. So to solidify this point, there is a reel that my brother sends me.

On a pretty regular basis, feel like whenever it comes up on his feed, he sends it to me. And it's a scene from The Town. If you haven't seen The Town, it's a heist movie. And Ben Affleck comes into the scene, and Jeremy Renner is his brother? Best friend. Best friend. And he comes in and he says, "I need your help. I can't tell you what it is. You can never ask me about it later. And we're going to hurt some people."

And Jeremy Renner, there's a pause and all he says is, "Whose car are we gonna take?" they're in Boston. That would have probably helped set the mood when I did the accent. Whose car are we gonna take? And my brother would say, whose car are we gonna take? No questions asked. Yes, he would. Yes, he would. And if you know me, you already know that. Because we talk about it.

Because the other one would sing like a canary like you. Why do you think I would sing like a canary? What is why? Where is this coming from? I think if you were if you were pressured and you were on interrogation, you would talk. You're an honest person. You're not a liar. That's true. I call you a liar and a thief sometimes, but you're actually really not. All right. Fine. I mean, if it wasn't you that I was.

I might call him too because he would just know what to do. He's Slug.

Love you, bro. Let's switch to talking about Sydney. Sydney struggles with trusting her instincts. Your gut is, I read this somewhere, your gut is the accumulation of your experiences and the knowledge and like wisdom you have. So when you say I'm just trusting my gut, it's not an impulse like thing. It is actually an innate sense within yourself that takes into consideration everything you know and all your experiences. So you should absolutely trust your gut. So have you ever faced a situation where you ignored your gut feelings and then what happened? Have I ever ignored my gut feeling? Yeah, multiple times.

And then you ended up married and divorced. Yeah, that's exactly where I was going to go. the first marriage comes to mind. That's exactly the biggest one. jeez. I'm really good at convincing myself in and out of something, especially when I feel like I need to prove something else, somebody else wrong. I'm just going to like stubbornly go through with it. And my first marriage was definitely one of those scenarios. I mean, multiple jobs, I'm sure. And you're like, this just doesn't feel right. This doesn't feel like a good fit. But... did the grass is always greener thing and convinced myself that I should give it a try. It'll turn out to be this. And I'm just like, no, it's not anything at all. It's all the grass is greener where you water it. Yeah, that's true. It's a poster somewhere. Well, all right. So what I mean, that's my biggest one. Obviously, I'm sure there's many more. What about you? No, I'm I meant like my your first marriage. My first marriage. Yeah, absolutely. I mean, totally ignored red flags and

I don't think that person's a bad person. I think it's a bad person for me and our family dynamics and where we were headed in life. absolutely. Also, lot of the stubborn things you talked about led to that as well. But back to Sydney, though. Yeah. I would describe her as milk toast. She drove me freaking crazy. Yeah, she drove me crazy. And I feel like it takes a lot to drive it crazy. I wanted to sh... I'm not kidding. I literally, if I was her friend, would shake her. Yeah.

And be like, what the fuck, girl? Yes. She just constantly second-guessed herself. She ignored things. She talked herself out of a lot of things that were very blatantly obvious. She literally has a guy stalking her and she says nothing. He physically abused her. She has a witness to the abuse. And then he just continues to stalk her and she does nothing.

So do you think the warning sign she missed, do you think that made the story more interesting or I'm guessing it made it more frustrating for you? It was super frustrating. It was just like, I feel like it ironically made me have the opposite effect that you want to care for Sydney more because she winds up being the main victim in the story. But you also are like, I know every time she was like.

It's not that big a deal. I don't even think I really saw him. was like, girl, call up your ex boyfriend detective and report him. Yeah, I agree. I don't know why she didn't call him. That just seemed very childish and just like, I'm not going to call him even though he's a detective and he can totally help me with this. It just seemed very silly. But also I have a question. So as a woman, would your first thoughts after nearly being assaulted be like, "Damn, that guy who saved me is hot. I should get his number." Because that weirded me the fuck out. Even? OK, so.

I don't think I'm going to answer that.

Not even that she said he was hot. She was like, we had like an instant attraction. Yeah, the lightning bolt. Yeah, the lightning bolt. Like, how would you have that after just nearly being assaulted by this creep? I just can't put those two. I can't comprehend that.

I don't think I'd have been like, I got the lightning bolt. He's hot. I think I could objectively say, this man is attractive, but like it'd be a background to like what is happening. Would you obsess about it over the next couple of days? No, I would not obsess about it. But even, what I was going to say is even so that person is Tom in the story and even Tom says, well, you would just been assaulted. wasn't going to be the guy that says let me get your phone number. Yeah. Yet she was like, why didn't you ask me for my number then? Cause you just were assaulted and you had like a black eye. That's true. That's a great point that speaks to what you're saying earlier about his character, about how like you think he was actually a good person with these dark thoughts that was functioning life normally, because that's what a normal person would do. They'd be like, that's weird. I'm not going to do that. Even if I thought you were.

Yeah, think Tom was just had a series of unfortunate events. I mean, he was complicit in some of the things that happened, but when you were scared and you grew up in a not stable household, it is really hard to make traditional normal choices that the average person makes.

So Sydney feels pressured to settle down because of her biological clock. She's in her mid thirties. She says she's 34 and she's wondering if she's in her mid thirties. The answer is yes. It is a spectrum. If you are 30, 31 or 32 or 33, you are in your early thirties. If you're 34, 35, 36, you are in your mid. And if 37, 38, 39, you are in your late. I am at early forties. Jon is in his mid forties.

Anyway, Sydney feels pressure because she is in her mid thirties and this pressure is specifically coming from her mother. How does this shape her choices and maybe like some of the people that she's choosing to date or the behavior she's engaging in in these dates? And do you think Sydney's relationship with her mother helps you understand her better? do think you understand Sydney a little bit better. The relationship with her mom is

Interesting because on the surface she seems like she's really annoyed with her mom every time her mother is calling she makes comment about it. But I do think that the choices she's making is in an effort to try to assuage her mom and please her mom and do that. So I don't know if it's a conscious impact on her decisions or a subconscious impact on the decisions, but she clearly like.

I feel like it makes it easier for her to look past all the red flags and the quirks of people because she's on one shoulder, got her biological clock that's counting down, that's very real for her. Then on her other shoulder is her mother, might even be a louder clock that is chirping into her ear. And so I think it lets her like, it gives her an excuse to lower her standards and gets herself into a situation like she did.

But yes, I hear what you're saying. I think that some of the comments Sydney's mom made were outrageous. Sydney's mom multiple times in the book would call her and say, I have good news. I just found out that so and so's daughter is 37 and she had twins. So there's still hope for you, Sydney. Like her mom would call and say this to her. It's so fucked up. But you know this happens and you know that there are moms out there who have daughters, putting pressure on them and sons too. I mean, like, let's be real sons and daughters, but your kids will have children when they're ready to have children and you should not be pressuring them at all. Let the timeline run out. Let them have children on their own time. agree. So I do think though, I totally agree with what you're saying that she's making decisions to appease her mother, even though she's very much annoyed with the message her mother is sending her and saying to her the things her mom's her mom is saying to her and she's making some bad choices because of it. She is overlooking red flags. She is giving people probably second chance. mean, because we're only getting a sampling of, you know, Sydney's dating life. Even her relationship with Tom through the book, she's writing things off like, that's okay. That's, I'm trying to think of an example, but like though he didn't want to meet her friends. Right. Yeah. There. Thank you. That was a perfect one.

They're at brunch and she texts him and his phone like doesn't get a text because he's been texting her from a burner phone. How do you not run? How do you just not be like, I was like, see you dude. Peace out have to go to the bathroom. Hope there's a window in there. Right. Actually she's at the dinner with Kevin and she goes to the bathroom. She says she's hoped there's a window in there. like,

I don't care if there's a window there. I'd walk straight out the front door. Literally within the first five minutes of that guy sitting down, I would have gotten up and walked out. No way. I mean, no way. And when he said, you're perfect except for your arms. I'm like, And then she sits there and is conscious, conscious about her arms. Like, come on. That part really got me. I was like, girl. So if you were Sydney's friend, what advice would you give her?

I'd be like, you need to drop that bitch like a hot stone. Your life depended on it. Wait, it kind of did depend on it. A hot stone? Yeah, sorry, it just popped into my head. I mean, I don't care if he's Dr. I'm to be bringing that up again. Okay. Drop it like a hot stone. A bad habit. I think he's dropping like a bad habit. Bad habit. Hot stone, same thing. Tomato, I don't care if he's Dr. Hunk.

All the signs were like... Wait, which Dr. Hunk? Either one. All the signs point to run away. Run far, far away. Run away, run away, never return. Yes, exactly. You caught my reference. You always do. I imagine you'd sing a similar tune, I mean, based on our conversation so far. What, as her BFF, what would you be telling Sydney? Oh my gosh. I absolutely like... I have...

I've friends with people who I'm not saying are like Sydney, but who have continued, I have given advice about people they are dating and they continue to ask me for advice and then ignore what I've had to say. And I mean, I've said like, I don't know why you're asking me because you ignore what I say and you're perpetually unhappy with where things are at. So either you have to make different choices or you have to stop asking me for my advice. You don't want advice, you want permission.

So in every Freida book, we talked about this a little bit, but there's a twist and then there's a final twist. Usually I see the first twist coming or I know it's coming, but usually I feel like I can predict it. But I usually don't feel like I always get the second one because it comes out of love fuel or just like this tiny little thing that makes you think. But in this book, I feel like there are kind of two. you have Tom going off with Daisy, which I really didn't think was going to happen. I thought he was trying, that was misdirection.

But then we have Sydney getting Kevin's lock of hair in the mail. And the little note that tells you that it was Daisy and Tom that killed him. Do you think that Kevin deserved this ending? No, I don't. I mean, yeah, the guy was a creep, a total creep. And also not that it's a total one for one comparison, but it's also a bit of a twist because up until this point, it had been Daisy killing women for in Tom's life and now it's is it going to be Tom killing men in Sydney's life? he actually really does love her. Yeah. Maybe he killed Daisy and now he's killing all the guys in her life. Maybe. I don't even think about that. But no, I don't think he deserved that ending either. Yeah, that's messed up. It is really messed up. I would imagine if she's dating Jake the detective again that she could have just...

Hopefully she reported Kevin at that point. Or would have. Hopefully she reported the frickin' lock of hair of Kevin's. I know. Well, Sydney makes bad choices, so who That's true. Who knows? Good point. Do you have any final thoughts on this book? And would you recommend it to our listeners? And then would you be interested in reading other books by this author? Yeah, I would recommend it. I think I would recommend it to...

People who like the whodunit book, the twists are fun. It's not a long read. It's not a huge time investment. So you can maybe slide it in between another longer book. Yeah, so I don't really have any other final thoughts on that. What about you? Your final thoughts? Would you recommend? Yeah, I definitely would recommend Freida McFadden is an author that I often recommend. If you have not read her and this book sounds interesting, I would recommend you read it.

And if you are interested in other books by her, I recommend the Housemaid series. I absolutely loved books one and two from that series. Three was a miss for me. There are plenty of other books in her collection that I think are great too, but the Housemaids are my probably number one and two. Never Lie is another one that's really good. Right on. So, and with that, we want to remind everyone that our next two episodes are going to feature A Very Merry Bromance by Lyssa Kay Adams as our holiday read. And then our season recap will be two weeks after that. And then we will take a short break before we come back for season two. Don't forget, their free way to support our show is by leaving us a review and rating us on Apple Podcasts. Or Spotify. Or Spotify or wherever you listen. There you go. Also, if you don't want to us, but you have a question, as Jon mentioned earlier, you can send us a DM on Instagram, or you can email us at booksimakemyhusbandread at gmail.com. We would love to hear from you. And that's all I got. That's another one in the books. That's another one in the books. I think you're going to have to come up with a new tagline. Maybe something to do with hot stones, dropping them like hot stones.

All right, well, who knows? Maybe this one will be the one your husband reads. Yeah, he should. It's a good one. It is. It's a good little psychological thriller.

Alright, take care. Okay, that looks great. Bye, see ya. Bye. Adios. Hasta luego.